Airline transition, Where to?

[WheelsUpHeelsUp]

We are assuming Bluto has the mins to enter the game at the major level..

Bluto what is your background?

When I got out FEDEX, SWA and Airtran were the only ones hiring.. Oh JetBlue but there was no way I was going to work in NYC.. So my decision was easy and I could never fly people.. Just having 3 other dudes in the Hoov was enough for me...

Not sure that always matters, timing might be the ingredient. One of my best buddies spent probably almost 10 years in Herc's, CV 580's and finally another 6 years in C9's. Over 7,000 hrs in multi's and much of it in 9's. He retired around 1990 + or - 1. He got picked up by Delta Lite and eventually went with Fed Ex flying 757's. He made close to minimum wage with Delta Lite at that time, I think it was a rather humbling experience.

 

[BigIron]

Ever thought about going internationally for a pilot slot?

Emirates, Air India, easyjet?

 

[Cobra Commander]

You probably know this, but Delta just got NWA's old CEO (Richard Anderson). He doesn't exactly have a stellar reputation with labor, which is a shame because Deltas old CEO was a man of the people from what I've read.

Did anyone recomend airlinepilotcentral.com yet? It's a great source of info. They have pay charts along with a bunch of other good stuff.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[FrankTheTank]

He got picked up by Delta Lite and eventually went with Fed Ex flying 757's

You need to talk to your friend because we have NO 757s on the line.. We are converting some but none are in revenue service... ZERO.. We have a current open bid for a Paris 757 domicile and a Hong Kong Airbus domicile. Did you mean 727?

Also Wheels not sure of your point.. Of course more is better but the minimums are just that and if you meet those than you are in the game.. Competitive?? Maybe.. Depending on the timing... But in the game, yes!

 

[A4sForever]

You probably know this, but Delta just got NWA's old CEO (Richard Anderson). He doesn't exactly have a stellar reputation....

"Dick" Anderson: the man is a walking, talking, penis in a business suit.

Remember this: upper management HATES YOUR GUTS.

Even former Vietnam USMC Freddie Smith of FedEx has moved away from his previous "love fest" with pilots --- "love fest" until the pilots wanted to join ALPA. The reason they wanted to organize was because Freddie was starting to shift his emphasis to the bottom line (nothing inherently wrong with that, but not at the expense of pilots when management is reaping all of the gold). Lots of considerations, lots of particulars, but remember this: if there was a way to do it without pilots; i.e., fly airplanes ..... management would ....

I had a very good friend from another airline-life (pilot) who ended up in senior management @ 3 airlines after our original employer crashed and burned. He was very successful, moved easily in the thin air of the management suites, and he confirms the disdain and disrespect from management toward pilots. As he used to put it: "it isn't about the money ... they already have more than they can spend in an ordinary lifetime ... it's about 'ego' and their place in the airline CEO 'club' ..... and they want to run the show. They hate pilots, because pilots are semi-autonomous by the nature of the job. "

He was right .....

I once had our CEO in my cockpit on the way over to Tokyo. During the (forced) pleasantries, he observed: "I don't mind paying you guys what you're worth .... I just don't like paying you TWICE what you're worth .... " :icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:

I think he was waiting for laughter and applause at his wit and wisdom -- instead he only saw the backside of our heads. After a few minutes of of dead silence only broken by his attempts to re-ingratiate himself with "us" ... he quietly left the cockpit and returned to his 1st class seat.

Most of upper management today closely resembles carpetbaggers and robber barons of a time past. They move seamlessly from airline to airline. The have no center, no honor, no code, and no soul. It's all about "them" and the perceived CEO power to be derived that infects a lot of present "airline management".

The days of C.R. Smith, Robert F. Six, the Braniff Brothers, Juan Trippe and Howard Hughes ... i.e., airline pioneers and CEO's who had "something of themselves"in the airline .... are long gone .... :sleep_125

 

[MasterBates]

Maybe A4s can make his own airline..

With real customer service

(yeah, its not a 747, but its what the "make your own airline" sign generator had)

 

[phrogdriver]

How do you guys recommend fighting currency issues for those of us who have sold out to the "man" and are going for 20? Unfortunately, with a few exceptions, you often face the possibility of spending that last year or two camped out at some HQ. Will some private time and a course at "AllATPs" or somewhere keep me in the game if the bulk of my flight time was 3-5 years ago, or would one have to claw up from the bottom again?

 

[WheelsUpHeelsUp]

You need to talk to your friend because we have NO 757s on the line.. We are converting some but none are in revenue service... ZERO.. We have a current open bid for a Paris 757 domicile and a Hong Kong Airbus domicile. Did you mean 727?

Also Wheels not sure of your point.. Of course more is better but the minimums are just that and if you meet those than you are in the game.. Competitive?? Maybe.. Depending on the timing... But in the game, yes!

Note the time frame, 1990 plus or minus. After his penance to Delta Lite he then went FedEx. At that time I'm pretty sure he said he was in 757's I don't think it was 727's but I suppose it's possible. Anyway in his mid 40's he developed some sort of Parkinson's which grounded him and cost him his employment. From what I understand it's somewhat under control and he's able to enjoy his retirement. What I was driving at is he really had a hard time getting on even with the right tickets. Again, I think it's the timing thing. At that time there were a shitload of ex Eastern drivers without a job who probably realized the union wasn't heaven sent and would sell their souls to get back in.

 

[A4sForever]

How do you guys recommend fighting currency issues for those of us who have sold out to the "man" and are going for 20? Unfortunately, with a few exceptions, you often face the possibility of spending that last year or two camped out at some HQ. Will some private time and a course at "AllATPs" or somewhere keep me in the game if the bulk of my flight time was 3-5 years ago, or would one have to claw up from the bottom again?

Not sure I understand your time frame ... but: stay current. No matter what, no matter how ... ALWAYS. Keep your logbook alive.

If you're only talkin' about working 20 years for UNCLE and what happens in the airlines (???) ... I had several F/O's on the Whale who had done just that ... i.e., 20 years working for Big Blue or AF and then bail and go for the airlines.

The airlines kinda like that type of individual, as they know you're not looking elsewhere (probably) and they know you're not going to get a hemorrhoid over a substandard pay scale (compared to the glory years) when you have 20+ years of military retired pay to supplement your gross ....

 

[A4sForever]

...... We have a current open bid for.... a Hong Kong Airbus domicile. ...

I would take that in a heartbeat.

Believe it ...

 

[A4sForever]

With real customer service

Ahhhhhhhh ... my first airline. PSA, a.k.a. "Poor Sailor Airline" .... we interviewed for pilot positions with @ 30 ladies who were being "rushed" for stewardess postitions. I knew @ half of the airline the first day -- as most were former Navy.

Their rejects??? They were gorgeous. I would drink their bath water. And did ...

 

[phrogdriver]

Not sure I understand your time frame ... but: stay current. No matter what, no matter how ... ALWAYS. Keep your logbook alive.

Timeframe--I'm at just under 13 years in, and will probably be assured of flying another 2 or so. After that, it's not exactly luck of the draw, but by no means assured. If I have to choose between career advancement and flying, I'll choose flying. I also know I want a flying job after I leave. I know I'm not the first guy to contend with the problem; I'm just wondering (1)how had it is to get hired with a stale logbook and (2) How to best counteract it if I can't stay in a flying billet the whole time. I imagine getting a CFI and putting it to use would be one way; I'm just wondering cost/benefit here.

 

[S.O.B.]

Timeframe--I'm at just under 13 years in, and will probably be assured of flying another 2 or so. After that, it's not exactly luck of the draw, but by no means assured. If I have to choose between career advancement and flying, I'll choose flying. I also know I want a flying job after I leave. I know I'm not the first guy to contend with the problem; I'm just wondering (1)how had it is to get hired with a stale logbook and (2) How to best counteract it if I can't stay in a flying billet the whole time. I imagine getting a CFI and putting it to use would be one way; I'm just wondering cost/benefit here.

Will tilt-rotor make into the commercial world? If so you guys should be able to command big money.

 

[phrogdriver]

Will tilt-rotor make into the commercial world? If so you guys should be able to command big money.

Good question. Answer--it will go commercial. How financially viable it will be, I don't know. The operating cost will be high, so your starters will probably be uber-VIPs, like the Sultan of Brunei (has 1 on order) or petroleum support (as oil keeps climbing in price, someone has to support rigs way out in the ocean). The cost/benefit has to work out. I don't know how this demand will balance out against the still-limited, but slowly climbing, number of tiltrotor pilots that will all eventually EAS.

http://www.bellagusta.com/index.cfm

 

[A4sForever]

...I'm just wondering

(1)how had it is to get hired with a stale logbook and

(2) How to best counteract it if I can't stay in a flying billet the whole time. I imagine getting a CFI and putting it to use would be one way; I'm just wondering cost/benefit here.

(1) You have GOT to stay current to be competitive. There's just too many guys who are .... I've interviewed and hired guys for two airlines while in flight ops or training and that's one of the cuts that got the guys in the door -- or didn't. But it's not that hard to maintain a minimum currency.

(2) Probably a good idea -- CFI or do your own flying --- and what's money when you're looking at a potential for airline employment to grease the skids for you on into retirement??? Again, do whatever it takes to maintain a logbook minimum currency in landings, usually 3 T/O's and LDGs within a 90 day period. Without looking it up -- maybe check the FAR's (look in Part FAR 121.439 and/or FAR 135.247) and look for "recency of experience requirements". I could be wrong on the FAR's numbers ... I'm not looking them up .... but it's a place to start.

>>> OR .... (*3* ) .... GET OUT and get on with the Reserves when the time is right -- then you maintain currency on UNCLE's dime and keep working toward graduating from the USMC with 20 and a military retirement and benefits while working for an airline.

Who needs 20 active duty if you're not flying, not happy, and not staying in .... ???