Alaska Airlines 737 MAX 9 Decompression

[taxi1]

I live in a state that was built on rail (KS).

Tangent to tangent…last weeks I drove out to CO from PA to ski and visit family (missed the big storm) and I always stay in Manhattan KS when passing through on I70. It was a freakish 70 degrees, and I went for a 30 mile gravel bike ride in the Flint Hills. Glorious day!

 

[JTS11]

No idea how they get hired. I’ll ask one of my friends about it the next time I see him.

I ask bc as a kid my grandpa retired from the RR as a heavy equipment operator (SeaBee during WWII as a teen) , and I remember going with him to the small town midwest depot as a kid. So, I've always had a fascination with the RRs.

Fast forward to living in downtown SD in an apt by the tracks several years ago, and I was fascinated by watching miles long BNSF trains being brought to a halt by a bum with a shopping cart. The engineer opening the side window and telling him to get the F off the tracks...😄

Also, witnessing dumb asses jumping in between cars when that same train was stopped, to get to the other side. After seeing the way those things lurch when they get going again....Yikes

 

[Mos]

Interesting how the Latam nose dive has progressed from there being a random "reset" of avionics to now allegedly a FA accidentally hitting a switch that pushed the pilot into the controls. Those sound like two very different things, and of course the news media went apeshit over the first one.

 

[JTS11]

Interesting how the Latam nose dive has progressed from there being a random "reset" of avionics to now allegedly a FA accidentally hitting a switch that pushed the pilot into the controls. Those sound like two very different things, and of course the news media went apeshit over the first one.

I guess the counter would be, why is there a switch on the back of the seat that could push a seat/ pilot into the yoke to cause something like this. A loose switch?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/03/15/latam-dreamliner-dive-boeing-switch/

It's a potentially problematic system, and needs to be addressed. Maybe pull the CB and ziptie it. Old school-like. 😄

 

[sevenhelmet]

Interesting how the Latam nose dive has progressed from there being a random "reset" of avionics to now allegedly a FA accidentally hitting a switch that pushed the pilot into the controls. Those sound like two very different things, and of course the news media went apeshit over the first one.

Of course they did. As Mark Twain said, “a lie gets halfway around the world before the truth can get its pants on.”

It's a potentially problematic system, and needs to be addressed. Maybe pull the CB and ziptie it. Old school-like. 😄

That might be problematic, since I’m pretty sure it’s the same switch the pilots use to adjust their seat position.

 

[JTS11]

Of course they did. As Mark Twain said, “a lie gets halfway around the world before the truth can get its pants on.”


That might be problematic, since I’m pretty sure it’s the same switch the pilots use to adjust their seat position.

Just go old school and make it mechanical and lock where you want the seat to be into position.

Don't let the help smush you into the controls via a loose switch. Seems simple to me.

Also, why would those back-of-the seat switches need access in flight (with a flimsy plastic cover)? I'm sure they have WOW logiic in their systems?

Not trying to pile on Boeing, just asking questions of systems. It seems this could be a failure of imagination. Luckily, it didn't result in fatalities.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Also, why would those back-of-the seat switches need access in flight (with a flimsy plastic cover)? I'm sure they have WOW logiic in their systems?

Because in a multi-piloted, long-haul aircraft, you might be changing pilots and want to adjust the seat at some point during the flight?

Human factors tends to look VERY carefully at things like this when setting up a modern cockpit. I suspect that switch, its location, and its use case were the subject of many long, boring meetings, and engineering evaluations at Boeing, culminating in a test pilot’s written report showing compliance to the FAA (probably part of a larger report about the cockpit arrangement). Not saying they can’t get it wrong, but this one incident does not a mandatory redesign make.

I’d say this occurrence was likely either due to crew inattention, or mechanical malfunction of the switch (a loose cover, or something).

…Or perhaps Boeing and Taylor Swift conspired to sabotage all 787s so that Joe Biden can win the election in November.

 

[JTS11]

Because in a multi-piloted, long-haul aircraft, you might be changing pilots and want to adjust the seat at some point during the flight?

Agree with your other (unquoted) point, the crew should be more careful. This isn’t necessarily a design issue.

I'm not trying to be obtuse (and maybe reading the reports wrong, and misinterpreting the video of the system posted earlier have led me there), but I still don't understand why the switch on the back of the seat can push it fwd enough to cause that situation.

I thought that switch was only meant to back the seat up and out on the L-track for an initial entry. Wouldn't subsequent hot seats be initiated by the pilot in the seat's controls, and not the switches on the back?

Like you said though, not a major design issue...but still could be improved IMO.

 

[sevenhelmet]

I'm not trying to be obtuse (and maybe reading the reports wrong, and misinterpreting the video of the system posted earlier have led me there), but I still don't understand why the switch on the back of the seat can push it fwd enough to cause that situation.

I thought that switch was only meant to back the seat up and out on the L-track for an initial entry. Wouldn't subsequent hot seats be initiated by the pilot in the seat's controls, and not the switches on the back?

Like you said though, not a major design issue...but still could be improved IMO.

You may be right. I don’t know enough about it to say with any certainty, but the switch being on the BACK of the seat points to it not being there for pilot comfort. In which case, whatever protective cover it had to protect against inadvertent actuation might have been the real issue.

Probably why we get reminded regularly not to speculate about mishaps.

 

[JTS11]

Probably why we get reminded regularly not to speculate about mishaps.

That only applies to military mishaps on here though. 😆

Not to FA Bruce serving lunch to the cockpit, and turning the plane into the vomit comet. 😁

 

[sevenhelmet]

That only applies to military mishaps on here though. 😆

Not to FA Bruce serving lunch to the cockpit, and turning the plane into the vomit comet. 😁

Hey, I’m not judging. I’ve been speculating as much as anyone.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Tangent to tangent…last weeks I drove out to CO from PA to ski and visit family (missed the big storm) and I always stay in Manhattan KS when passing through on I70. It was a freakish 70 degrees, and I went for a 30 mile gravel bike ride in the Flint Hills. Glorious day!

I lived in Manhattan KS for 3 years, many good memories but that was a long time ago, there is part of me that would like to go back and visit but part of me wants to just remember it how it was.

 

[GroundPounder]

No idea how they get hired. I’ll ask one of my friends about it the next time I see him.

Most class I railroads hire you on as a conductor trainee, and then after training you work your way up to conductor. If you choose, when you gain seniority, you can become an engineer.

It's a hard life, as until you are senior, you have no set schedule. When you get off, you basically get a call 10 hours later to report. No set off days, either. CSX and NS are in my area, and they like to hire former military and police as both groups are used to working weird schedules outside, in all weather conditions.

Until recently, most did not have paid sick time either.

The trade off used to be better than average money, in return for low quality of life. Now the money does not outweigh the negatives.

They also have moved to a system called Precision Scheduled Railroading, which basically have turned two trains in to one. Less crews, more money made per train. Their eventual goal is to have one man crews, with the conductor driving a truck to where they are needed to do the ground work.

 

[Random8145]

Slight tangent, not meaning to derail the thread, but I am a huge fan of steam locomotives and have been reading a lot about them. Don't know if any of y'all are interested, but since some of you say you like trains, there is a hobby called Live Steam, basically scale model versions of real steam locomotives. There is also Live Diesel:

An interesting side fact, the flanges on train wheels aren't what keep the train on the tracks, they are just a safety. The real mechanism is the shape of the wheels. Train axles have no differential, so the wheels can't turn at different speeds when they go around a turn. So instead of two same size wheels turning at different speeds, the shape of the wheels turns it into two different sized wheels turning at the same speed:

Back in 2009, Warren Buffet spent $44 billion and purchased BNSF, a freight train company. At the time, many thought he was foolish and overpaid. Freight trains? That's an old, boring industry. The future is with the tech companies and ecommerce and so forth. Buffett's reasoning was basically, yes, ecommerce, it is going to keep growing. And how do you think the goods sold get from the warehouse to people's front door? Turns out he was right as freight trains are very efficient.

 

[JTS11]

Since I've contributed to this threadjack, I'll proceed. There are crazy mf'ers riding abandoned rails btwn SD and the Yuma area mining areas Some into restricted areas. They're idiots, but I respect their game a little?