Alcohol, Primary, DOR and ADSEP

[mingusdingus]

Hello all,

Thank you all for the plethora of great information here. My situation is a strange one, and would love your feedback, I'll try and keep it concise.

Upon commissioning out of OCS in spring of 24, I began down a path that led me to self reporting to SARP for severe alcoholism this last spring, halting my training about halfway through primary. Never had an issue with it in my life before. Since then I have been to rehab twice and am now in an outpatient program, almost 3 months sober, and am doing everything in my power to keep it that way for the remainder of my life.

Maintaining my sobriety and mental health has become far more important to me than any particular career field, and the odds of being medically cleared to stay in aviation are slim.

All that being said, I have extreme concern that being redesignated could put me in a position to relapse down the line, and truly believe that my sobriety would be best served returning to my civilian career.

I am now wondering if preemptively DOR-ing while I'm in treatment is my best option, with a request for an ADSEP. I understand completely that I made an oath, and I realize that I have failed to perform to the standards expected of the oath, and will do my best regardless of what the navy tells me to do.

If I am expected to redesignate, I will do my duty to the best of my ability. I just want to set myself up to successfully live sober, and I believe the stressors of the military in general will yield unnecessary roadblocks for this endeavor.

I've read up about separation for alcohol treatment failure (which as of now I am not), adjustment disorder (which I don't believe I qualify for), as well as ADSEP as a potential path following a DOR.

Tricky situation, WILD choice for a first post, but thank you for reading. Any feedback would be much appreciated.

 

[Meyerkord]

Congrats on 3 months, that’s great. And good on you for identifying you were in trouble and getting some help.

Has anyone laid out your future options for you? Has your CoC said anything about an ADSEP? Or if they plan on keeping you in the pipeline? I’d try to gain some clarity on what’s happening behind the scenes if you can. I don’t know enough about the separation process to know if DORing and requesting an ADSEP is the right way to go, but it certainly seems that way from a mental health aspect.

 

[Hozer]

An ADSEP has serious consequences down the road and that paper follows you for life.
Just to be clear, do not think it is a benign offramp for failing to adjust to the rigors of military service.

Good luck. I get calls every week from veterans seeking to re-visit their ADSEP and seek an upgrade to their discharge characterization and it can be an extremely difficult hurdle.

 

[squorch2]

adjustment disorder (which I don't believe I qualify for),

IANAD, TINLA, etc. etc.

fun fact: adjustment disorder is basically "you're not doing it like everyone else, and it's affecting your performance" in more words.

the question you really want to explore is - what do you want to do with your life? put another way, what are your life's priorities?

possible first choices here are "fly," "serve," "raise a family," maintain my sobriety so that I can do everything else," etc. etc.

these aren't choices to be made quickly - they deserve true introspection over at least a couple days.

that being said - I have a down chit from before my HAC days framed on my wall saying "adjustment disorder." Just cause a flight doc writes that doesn't mean the psychs who have to endorse such a diagnosis will do so.

I also have a former skipper who made a similar SARP and level 3 journey prior to screening for command.

you have agency. you can make choices. make the ones that keep the most doors open. whatever that means for you.

good luck. we're all counting on you.

ETA: many folks use "adjustment disorder" as an easy button. and have for decades: https://law.yale.edu/sites/default/files/documents/pdf/Clinics/VLSC_CastingTroopsAside.pdf

U.S. military illegally discharging veterans with personality disorder, report says

U.S. military illegally discharging veterans with personality disorder, report says

www.denverpost.com

 

[Duc'-guy25]

I don’t think self reporting to the SARP is going to medically disqualify you from flying ever again (not a flight doc), and I don’t see it in the waiver guide. I have friends that have self reported (and directed to report) that are still flying. If Naval Aviation is still what you want to do, I don’t think that’s out of the cards. I would have the conversation with your class advisor/command about your future and options.

I don’t know what your performance in the aircraft looked like before entering treatment, but the ability to recognize you have a problem is probably respected to some extent by the front office.

My big question would be do you think staying in the military in general will cause you to relapse, or just doing something you didn’t sign up wanting to do?

At the end of the day, do what’s going to be best for your future. Just understand all the options are going to have their hurdles.

 

[allegroreyees]

Before you make any decisions regarding DORing, attrition from flight school, I would recommend taking a look at the 1500.4 (search for it in the box app) and the POCR Business Rules. The 1500 is the governing document for all of flight school and lays out how students who are long term med down, admin holds, attrites, etc. are handled. Many IPs aren't familiar with it unless it directly affects their ground job.

I was close to going through the POCR process while in primary so I'm familiar with the interworkings of it. There are some options available to you through redesignation that have more in line with a civilian office job than what you'd typically associate with military service. You can also request going to a SELRES or TAR community but this is rare and was usually only available if the AD component of that community wasn't open to your Year Group.

Feel free to message me if you would like some more info on what my experience was or if you just need someone to talk to. When I first started the process of being recommended for attrition, I was down in the dumps but I was pleasantly suprised at the options available through redesignation.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Good on you for recognizing this now, and seeking a recovery. In the grand scheme of things, your life is more important than any of this. I’d have a hard time believing that they would remove you over this, though I could certainly see it being a bit of a speed bump in your progress through the program (since there certainly must be an evaluation period before they sign you off). But that is a whole lot better, in my opinion, than having a significant alcoholism problem and years down the road getting a DUI or into an ARI of some sort. At that point, your career is tanked, or at least any prospect of promotion and retention.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Second what @MIDNJAC says. I'd stay in aviation if they let you- all the reasons you wanted to be there are still valid, and if you caught this before a major ARI or damage occurred, you might be able to use it as an example of good judgment as an officer.

As much of a drinking culture as the military has (and oh boy does it ever), I did encounter non-drinkers regularly on active duty, and they were still able to hang out and have a good time after the day's work was done. You'll be richer than your buddies, better rested, and automatically cool if you volunteer as DD.

 

[Swanee]

@MIDNJAC and @sevenhelmet have hit the head on the nail. There are guys in my squadron who don't drink. TBH, I've never asked them why- I'm not sure anyone has. That doesn't stop them from having a diet coke or a root beer for the debrief, nor does it stop them from coming to the naming, or any other function. One of those guys is an evaluator, and has amassed an impressive collection of alcohol free liquor. I've never seen a virgin Old Fashioned before. He makes a pretty good one, same with a dressed up tomato juice (read: bloody mary sans vodka). he's one of us.

Don't DOR. Fight a redesignation. If you want to fly, if you're a decent pilot, you're fun to be around, and you can be okay at a ground job, we've got a place for you as a pilot in a flying squadron.

Keep taking care of your mental health. You're in a better spot because you recognized it early and sought (and received) treatment that so many of our friends should have.

 

[Brett327]

An ADSEP has serious consequences down the road and that paper follows you for life.

Just to clarify, an ADSEP carries no consequences in and of itself. It’s the type of discharge that matters. To clarify further for the OP, DOR and ADSEP aren’t linked in any way, and you can’t really request an ADSEP, with a couple rare exceptions.

People fly with addiction issues, as long as they’re controlled. That said, if you think military life - as an Aviator or other designator, will present issues for your sobriety, then you’ve got a few voluntary options like hardship discharge, convenience of the government… and a few others like alcohol treatment failure, mental health bases, etc. you should be discussing these with a JAG, because they all carry different potential consequences and risks. Go to base legal ASAP and talk with a JAG about this. That’s why they’re there. Get smart on all your options so that you can have an informed conversation with your leadership, who will play a big role in any outcome.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Just to clarify, an ADSEP carries no consequences in and of itself. It’s the type of discharge that matters.

Thank you. I was breaking my brain trying to figure out why anyone in the civilian world would care- or even know about- ADSEP. Even an OTH (unlikely in this case as presented) shouldn’t hurt employment opportunities in civilian world, but will impact VA benefits.

The only discharge that can be a show-stopper is dishonorable. But you have to be convicted of a felony to get one of those, and even then I’m not sure it’s 100%.

 

[Brett327]

Discharge type can matter for follow on employment, but I think there's a lot of disinformation out there on what it all means. There's a classic line that Sailors get told about "not even being able to work at McDonalds" if they have the wrong kind of discharge. I think that's mostly hyperbole, though I'm sure @Hozer may be able to illuminate us on things that he has seen.

FWIW, I'm an employee of the State of Washington, and nobody asked me for my DD-214... though I'm just a vineyard worker.

 

[taxi1]

nobody asked me for my DD-214... though I'm just a vineyard worker.

Better get that I-9 form filled out, or you'll be on a one way trip to South Sudan.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Discharge type can matter for follow on employment, but I think there's a lot of disinformation out there on what it all means. There's a classic line that Sailors get told about "not even being able to work at McDonalds" if they have the wrong kind of discharge. I think that's mostly hyperbole, though I'm sure @Hozer may be able to illuminate us on things that he has seen.

FWIW, I'm an employee of the State of Washington, and nobody asked me for my DD-214... though I'm just a vineyard worker.

I’m just a humble beekeper