All things MV-22 Osprey

[HeyJoe]

I have a question:

Is the USAF chipping in for all this R&D? The Marine Corps has sunk a LOT of funding into the Osprey, is the Air Force paying their fair share? Or are they just saying, "Oh cool, I'll take what they are having."

This is something I have always wondered about and never asked.

Marine Corps and ultimately Navy* benefits from USAF participation in V-22 program on several levels. USAF does contribute to the R&D costs AND provides a portion of the personnel to manage the program (last Program manager was an Air Force Colonel) AND the unit cost is less due to a larger buy. If you want numbers, USAF paid for $36.5M in 2006 and will spend approx $25.6M in 2007 and are hoping for $16M in 2008.

*All USMC aviation is paid for by so-called Blue dollars out of OPNAV N88 (Air Warfare) except for unique USMC aviation C2 and Air Defense

Here's what USAF provided in Budget justification to Congress in February:

USSOCOM and USAF jointly fund Block 10 enhancements, correction of deficiencies, and Block 20 development. USSOCOM funds the development, integration and testing of SOF mission capability, while USAF funds interoperability, basic air vehicle enhancements, integration of Air Force and Navy maintenance information systems used with the V-22, contractor logistics support for operational testing, and CV-22 unique implementation and testing of MV-22 Block B and Block C changes.

USSOCOM and USAF jointly fund emerging requirements to design, integrate, and test CV-22's ability to accelerate delivery of capabilities to meet the SOF mission as well as comply with OSD/service interoperability requirements and specifications.

 

[HueyCobra8151]

Question answered. Thanks.

 

[HeyJoe]

Question answered. Thanks.

My pleasure. Any time.

 

[hscs]

I think the USAF CSAR community will be upset when their SOF brothers in CV-22s, or even worse Marines in V-22s, grab a long range SAR or TRAP mission right under their noses.

I'll be impressed if the AF guys just launch...

 

[HeyJoe]

MV-22 in Desert exercise

The MV-22 has participated in Exercise Mojave Viper showcasing its unique capabilites. Check out nice slideshow accompanying article.

 

[AllAmerican75]

Very cool. Is the Navy sending pilots to V-22 training yet?

 

[HeyJoe]

Very cool. Is the Navy sending pilots to V-22 training yet?

Right now, MV-22 is for USMC and CV-22 is for AFSOC. Most V-22 briefs mention a USN requirement, but that is still down the road.

 

[phrogdriver]

Very cool. Is the Navy sending pilots to V-22 training yet?

There is ONE trained Navy V-22 pilot to my knowledge. Good guy, rotorcraft test pilot background. Why they sent him, I'm not exactly sure, but a good deal for him nonetheless. Mass Navy V-22 training is a LONG way down the road, if ever. They still have those brand-new H-60s to wear out first.

 

[skidz]

There is ONE trained Navy V-22 pilot to my knowledge. Good guy, rotorcraft test pilot background. Why they sent him, I'm not exactly sure, but a good deal for him nonetheless.

Darn, I'm stumped at this one. I have no clue who that could possibly be.

 

[phrogdriver]

Darn, I'm stumped at this one. I have no clue who that could possibly be.

And how does someone whose profile says he's waiting for OCS know that particular Navy LCDR? No, really, I'm curious.

 

[skidz]

I really have no clue who the LCDR is. After going back and rereading what I wrote, and what you wrote, it was the way I interpreted the way you were commenting on the fact that there is one Navy pilot for the MV-22.

I made a pointless post for a reason that I just can't recall. Must have lost it while I slept, but there probably wasn't one to begin with.

 

[HeyJoe]

There is ONE trained Navy V-22 pilot to my knowledge. Good guy, rotorcraft test pilot background. Why they sent him, I'm not exactly sure, but a good deal for him nonetheless. Mass Navy V-22 training is a LONG way down the road, if ever. They still have those brand-new H-60s to wear out first.

Services have provided seats in squadrons for other services and even other countries even if they don't operate the same type aircraft so this is not unusual. There have been Navy and even RAF pilots flying the B-2 and F-117, which are operated solely by the Air Force. In the case of the V-22, that individual (whom I do not know) would now be an ideal candidate to return to Pax River in a V-22 DT role or participate in working on the eventual implementation of the Osprey in a Navy role when and if that happens.

 

[kmac]

Anybody up for a Navy Osprey discussion? What exact role do you see a medium lift transport doing? SEALs? COD/VOD? SAR? If so, how would the units possibly be organized? Would you make it part of a single squadron, or have different squadrons fulfilling different roles?

Points to consider: shorter range than C-2, heavier lift capability than the C-2 but smaller internal volume, inflight-refueling capability, doesn't pressurize, can land almost anywhere, and has defenses.


Sorry, I'm just figuring out how to position myself to be a crotchety old sim instructor when my days of flying the C-2 are over.

 

[hscs]

I would say that it would be a candidate to replace the COD and to help solve some of the Navy's heavy lift issues. The Helo Master Plan didn't really take a good look at the H-53 -- they just decided to make it go away without looking at consequences. However, you could see the Navy buy into the -53K or look at other options like the S92 (or its eurotrash bretheren).

As for SAR -- you would have to see how bad the prop wash beat the rescue swimmer down.

SOF/CSAR -- good for wide open spaces and fast, but its LZ footprint would obviously be much larger and the brownout much worse. I have never seen one land, but I would say that it "space docks" as opposed to an H-60 that can come in rather expeditiously.

 

[phrogdriver]

I would say that it would be a candidate to replace the COD and to help solve some of the Navy's heavy lift issues. The Helo Master Plan didn't really take a good look at the H-53 -- they just decided to make it go away without looking at consequences. However, you could see the Navy buy into the -53K or look at other options like the S92 (or its eurotrash bretheren).

As for SAR -- you would have to see how bad the prop wash beat the rescue swimmer down.

SOF/CSAR -- good for wide open spaces and fast, but its LZ footprint would obviously be much larger and the brownout much worse. I have never seen one land, but I would say that it "space docks" as opposed to an H-60 that can come in rather expeditiously.

Interesting conclusion on the landings given the first admission. The required dimensions for a single aircraft landing are only 6 feet wider than a -46, so the LZ footprint isn't appreciably larger.

A V-22 doesn't get slammed on the deck like a -60, but with practice its speed into the zone (talking short final only--the average speed on ingress IP inbound is obviously MUCH greater) is probably the same or higher.

I can't speak to the overwater SAR issues--you'd have to go to the OT guys on that, and I don't know how far it's been pursued.

As far as COD/vertrep, its asset would be flexibility--one platform that could go to the CV or small decks. However, it isn't optimized for heavy or oversized cargo like a -53. I'm not intimately familiar with the COD, but it probably isn't quite as good in that role as a purpose-designed aircraft. If the Navy went that way, though, some mods could probably close that gap considerably.