Another nail in the coffin of Old-School Naval Avaition..

[Jim123]

It makes me feel dirty when I have to go down that road, but sometimes you can't be everyone's friend.

Yeah, but if they were your friend they wouldn't let their proverbial guys leave their proverbial crap in your hangar.

 

[jmcquate]

Don't think so ... after the Route Package System was created (to divide up C&C of the respective target areas), the Navy took over the geography in & around Thanh Hoa where the Walleye (something of a guided bomb -- not a missile) did some good work when it was deployed. The early iterations came w/ a 250-1000 # warhead, however, and did not have the punch to specifically drop a heavy, metal girder bridge.

The honor of killing that bastard (the Thanh Hoa bastard) went to A/F F-4s during '72 Linebacker carrying first generation LGB's (big ones, if I'm not mistaken). Memory only -- you should look it up to be sure ... homework assignment ??

Even though the bridge was largely rendered INOP from the '72 LGB F-4 strike, A-7's (don't remember which Air Wing) put the icing on the cake w/ Walleyes (I suspect the bigger version??). The spooks & planners were determined to make sure this 'symbolic target' that had cost dearly for a long time was dead, dead, dead -- thus this largely redundant A-7 strike (even w/ the new, improved 2000# Walleye) put the icing on the cake.

Q.E.D.

13 May 1972, 9 3000 lb LGBs, 15 2000 lb LGBs and 48 500 pounders. 14 Strikers, USAF F-4s. Now that my homework is done, can I pour myself a Scotch? (and no, I didn't use the web) I think the Doumer went down on 10 May 1972.

 

[A4sForever]

13 May 1972, 9 3000 lb LGBs, 15 2000 lb LGBs and 48 500 pounders. 14 Strikers, USAF F-4s. Now that my homework is done, can I pour myself a Scotch? (and no, I didn't use the web) ....

You didn't look it up?? Wow, you must be good.

Are you telling us you have the date, the strike package & their load-out 'memorized' from nearly 40 years ago ... ??? My eyes glaze over ...

Who was Strike Leader?? What was his callsign?? Who was the Strike back-up?? What were the ingress/egress headings?? Where was the 'flak'?? What was 'best bailout' heading?? What was the codeword of the day??

What did they have for lunch ... 'sides Joe Gomer ... ???

 

[jmcquate]

You didn't look it up?? Wow, you must be good.

Are you telling us you have the date, the strike package & their load-out 'memorized' from nearly 40 years ago ... ??? My eyes glaze over ...

Who was Strike Leader?? What was his callsign?? Who was the Strike back-up?? What were the ingress/egress headings?? Where was the 'flak'?? What was 'best bailout' heading?? What was the codeword of the day??

What did they have for lunch ... 'sides Joe Gomer ... ???

I said that I didn’t use the web, not that I didn’t look it up. I have a pretty extensive Military/Aviation library (My graduate work was in history specializing in Military and Aerospace). The book “Air War-Vietnam”, a collection of essays, devotes multiple chapters to the two bridges.
About the Scotch?

 

[A4sForever]

....About the Scotch?

+1

I'll buy.

 

[Gatordev]

Yeah, but if they were your friend they wouldn't let their proverbial guys leave their proverbial crap in your hangar.

A point lost on "our" friends, I think.

 

[BusyBee604]

Rt. Pkgs

Don't think so ... after the Route Package System was created (to divide up C&C of the respective target areas), the Navy took over the geography in & around Thanh Hoa where the Walleye (something of a guided bomb -- not a missile) did some good work when it was deployed. The early iterations came w/ a 250-1000 # warhead, however, and did not have the punch to specifically drop a heavy, metal girder bridge.

In my tours ('66-'67); Route Package w/ Major City (from south to north):

RP I - Dong Hoi USAF
RP II - So. of Vinh USN Often shared with USAF
RP III - Vinh USAF Often shared with USN
RP IV - Thanh Hoa USN Often shared
RP V - Nam Dinh USAF Sometimes shared
RP VIa - (West Sector) - Hanoi USAF Semetimes shared
RP VIb - (East Sector) - Haiphong USN - Seldom shared
*All sharing by prior arrangement

I really remember a mountain, er.. large hill up NW of the THB. It had a bunch of Vietnamese letters written with some white stuff like chalk powder or lime. After seeing it on a few recce missions. wondered what it said. One of the guys shot it with a telephoto lens camera, gave to IOIC to unravel. The best interpretation read:

"Comrades, be resolute in the face of the Yankee aggressor"!

I always thought this was cool, the "Yankee Air Pirate" syndrome I guess.irate_12

BTW, CDR Schufeldt's SS & DFC Citations are available to read by Googling CDR C. Vance Schufeldt. 3 combat cruises '66, '67 w/ VA-163 & '72 w/ VA-212. WOW!

More later (unless you furlough me like clux!):icon_tong
BzB

 

[Pugs]

More later (unless you furlough me like clux!):icon_tong
BzB

Highly doubtful! Enjoy your posts much.

 

[A4sForever]

....More later (unless you furlough me like clux!):icon_tong
BzB

Ain't gonna' happen ... you're stuck on this website.

Abandon all hope. There IS no escape.

 

[nittany03]

Today's USN acronyms qualify as a 2nd language for Old Farts..*%#)@'^!:icon_boxi
BzB

Eh. Silly Marines and their nonstandard acronyms. It's what it's always been in Big Blue . . .

 

[KBayDog]

Eh. Silly Marines and their nonstandard acronyms.

Eh, silly Navy and their 235 years of Tradition, unencumbered by progress.

 

[Catmando]

I said that I didn’t use the web, not that I didn’t look it up. I have a pretty extensive Military/Aviation library (My graduate work was in history specializing in Military and Aerospace). The book “Air War-Vietnam”, a collection of essays, devotes multiple chapters to the two bridges.
About the Scotch?

Any scotch owed is for A4s and others who have BTDT. Libraries, graduate work, essays, and bridges you have never seen under fire don't count for crap, sorry to say.


Regarding the Than Hoa Bridge, if I may... and I have been there a couple of times... overhead. Not pleasant.

IIRC, the bridge was damaged a number of times, while we also lost quite a number of aircraft and crews in doing so. Indeed, I believe spans were actually dropped a few times. But they were rapidly rebuilt, necessitating ever more dangerous strikes.

The AF may have attacked the bridge, but it was a truly NavAir target. And it remained still functionable, long after many damaging strikes.

I always thought the final coup de'etat was a Walleye. But this below quoted post on the tomcat sunset forum refreshes my memory. I know the author, the players, and their mission. They received DFCs, but I never knew the exact details. The author of this post does know and did, since he was there on that strike.

Perhaps you missed this in your "graduate studies."

http://www.tomcat-sunset.org/forums/index.php?topic=2441.1980

​

Thanks And THANKS for those GREAT archived Navy photo's Hoser & HJ. I LOVE that kind of Naval Aviation History. That was cool fun.
Believe it was a section of F-4's that FINALLY did the job in '72.
Anybody know the Squadron & Carrier?

Actually it was a single F-4 on an Iron Hand escort. VF-151/ USS Midway I believe the crew was Steve "Milo" Modlin and "Duke the Nuke" Potter. The story was after an alpha strike, they looked down and saw this big bridge. CO VA-93 was the Iron Hand so they asked him if they could roll in (they had 6 mk 82s) he gave them clearance and they dropped a span of the Than Hoa bridge. Surprise attack.

The crew was in hot water with the squadron CO because of the high threat area, but that went away when the Raven Skipper brought the paperwork over for their DFC.

Just catching up...​

 

[pourts]

I said that I didn’t use the web, not that I didn’t look it up. I have a pretty extensive Military/Aviation library (My graduate work was in history specializing in Military and Aerospace). The book “Air War-Vietnam”, a collection of essays, devotes multiple chapters to the two bridges.
About the Scotch?

Its also in a RAG CAI.

 

[Catmando]

My apologies to jmcquate on this subject.

After exchanging PMs, I realized I had misread his earlier posts.
Via PM, we both exchanged some good info on the history of that notorious, Than Hoa Bridge.

 

[JackyB]

The nail is also going into the "OLD SCHOOL" USAF Fighter Pilot coffin.

Check this out...............http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-test-pilot-20110209,0,4990968.story