API Curriculum Mod

[wingsB4rings]

I wanna say that sometime in 2004 the min score was somewhere around 92-ish to pass.

4 of my 6 test grades in api were in the 80s, and I got my wings without being rolled back once in primary or advanced. In my opinion, weeding out bad test takers won't necessarily cut down on VT attrition/DOR's. How well you can memorize hundreds of pages in a couple weeks doesn't always correlate to how well you can think on the fly with someone "constructively criticizing" you constantly. Maybe over time the stats will back up their reasoning, maybe they won't. If higher api attrition is what they are looking for, then they'll most likely get it with a shorter syllabus with longer days (i.e. less time to study and prepare). However, the better solution would be to designate fewer SNA's and SNFO's, with higher standards needed to get these billets. Can anyone say tougher IFS?

 

[Gitr]

IFS was given a more difficult syllabus last June. There were many more attrites after that change than there used to be. I'm not sure about the API thing but I wouldn't be surprised if IFS became even more difficult in the coming year.

 

[mountaineers33]

I am finishing up API next Thursday. The time is there to shorten it up some but having Aero II, Engines and Nav in the same week would have been really hard for me, personally. All I can say to the incoming studs is to study ahead now and start banging out the ELO's, I would've never suggested that for the current schedule but 3 weeks changes it tremendously.

You just need to be honest with yourself and know your limits, some need to study more then others... personally, I had to study a lot and I knew that coming into it.

Good luck to all!

 

[D_Rob]

I wonder what the scores would be like if they gave a class an Aero 1 or 2 test right before they leave just to see how much they really to remember?

 

[jjlint]

I went through API back in August/September of 2007, and one of our instructors informed us that the T-6 is changing the way Navy is doing business for preflight training. My understanding was that big Navy was looking for the best way to make IFS and API challenging enough that it will create higher attrition/DOR rates before primary because it will cost more to fly the T-6 per hour than the T-34. I just finished primary this week, and I will admit that it seemed like very few of my peers that went through the new IFS syllabus seemed to have many major problems with primary. I think that making API even more fast-paced will be a good supplement to this IFS syllabus to prepare students for the fire-hose nature of primary in addition to the stick skills.

That said, I don't think that there is any way to truly prepare a student with little or no flight time for the experience of primary. It's challenging for almost everyone, and trying to tell if someone will be a good military pilot prior to stepping into a military aircraft is something that will never be perfected.

 

[SDNalgene]

Can anyone say tougher IFS?

I respectfully disagree. The instruction in IFS is very unstandardized and the quality control is lacking. I don't think it's a really fair test of one's aptitude. I had a "cool" IFS instructor whose discussion of trim constituted pointing at the trim wheel and saying, "that's a trim wheel". Consequently I never could land worth a shit (I also suck at flying, so that could be it) in IFS and very nearly failed my checkride. While in the pattern the retired AF O-6 who was giving me my checkride said, "you haven't touched the trim wheel once in the pattern, wtf is wrong with you?" I give him a blank look because my instructor never said I needed to trim, not just in the pattern, anywhere. He basically ended the checkride there and showed me how to trim in the pattern. I nailed like 4 landings in a row and he passed me; thank God.

All IFS did for me was make me very afraid of the ground. Then I show up in the VT's and the instruction is almost idiot proof and everything went great. I did well in the VT's yet if IFS was any tougher I would have never gotten to API, let alone the VT's. And it wasn't because I didn't have the aptitude or work ethic, I just didn't have quality instruction. End rant.

 

[mmx1]

I respectfully disagree. The instruction in IFS is very unstandardized and the quality control is lacking. I don't think it's a really fair test of one's aptitude. I had a "cool" IFS instructor whose discussion of trim constituted pointing at the trim wheel and saying, "that's a trim wheel". Consequently I never could land worth a shit (I also suck at flying, so that could be it) in IFS and very nearly failed my checkride. While in the pattern the retired AF O-6 who was giving me my checkride said, "you haven't touched the trim wheel once in the pattern, wtf is wrong with you?" I give him a blank look because my instructor never said I needed to trim, not just in the pattern, anywhere. He basically ended the checkride there and showed me how to trim in the pattern. I nailed like 4 landings in a row and he passed me; thank God.

All IFS did for me was make me very afraid of the ground. Then I show up in the VT's and the instruction is almost idiot proof and everything went great. I did well in the VT's yet if IFS was any tougher I would have never gotten to API, let alone the VT's. And it wasn't because I didn't have the aptitude or work ethic, I just didn't have quality instruction. End rant.

I am very sketchy of civilians with the power to attrite people from the flight pipeline.

And yes, yes, it's a Navy board that ultimately attrites you, but seriously, from the instruction to the checkride, it's all in the hands of your school. I had a good IFS experience, but I've seen and heard too many horror stories to think it's anything near uniform.

 

[SemperGumby]

My class was briefed on this subject today. Here is what I got out of it. API is going to a 3 week syllabus, training will commence at 0530 and conclude at 1830. The three weeks will encompass Water Survival, Academics, Physiology, and the remaining survival training. We were told this change will have taken place by the time "you all get out of primary", so in about 7-8 months, give or take.
I don't know about anyone else but I'm finding the info in API to be very useful and able to be retained. I study my ass off and get good grades, effort in, reward out. As far as the attrition rate having gone from 20% to 2% at API, I think it had a lot to do with IFS. IFS provides for a basic understanding of aero, and the ground school is a condensed FRR, AERO, and NAV class.
I've been around the Navy long enough to "know" when they are about to screw something up, and I've got that suspicion now, watch out for that pendulum boys cause here it comes.

 

[Sabre170]

What will happen if a student who is not ready for a test. Back in the fall 2005, we were encouraged to talk with the instructors before the exam. If we were not ready for it, there was a chance that we would roll back a week, but if you took the exam and then failed it you were SOL.

 

[mmx1]

I think it's nuts as some guys really do need the 6 weeks to study. Most of my class hasn't found it as tough as perceived.

I do think that IFS duplicates a lot of API content, particularly Nav, Weather, FRR, and Aero I (II, not so much).

 

[Ken_gone_flying]

I'm going to be starting API sometime in June and I really hope that 7-8 month timeline put out by Semper Gumby holds true...

 

[incubus852]

3 weeks is going to suck ass no matter what. i don't care how sh!t hot anyone thinks they are or what they thought of API in hindsight.

 

[Flash]

Okay, I get that the Navy is getting the T-6 and it will probably be more expensive, but I still wrap my head around why the Navy needs to change a system that has worked for well over 15 years (how long has it been the same?) and drastically changing it. With the goal to attrite 20% of the people going through?

What is so wrong with the program as it stands now? Do they honestly think that just shortening the program will improve it? That sounds like a typical very short-sighted solution, with very little thought put into improving the program overall. And if 20% attrition is the primary goal, I think that the Navy needs to reconsider and fix their thought process. I often saw that success in API is not an indicator of success in flight school.

I think there would be a few other things that could weed out those who do not have the aptitude for flying. Why not standardize IFS and utilize retired or reserve military aviators? Make it more like a pre-Primary, more formalized than what I have heard about how it is conducted now. The USAF was doing that a few years ago, before the T-3's started falling out of the sky, and I believe the Israeli's and RAF do it that way. Increase the the utilization of simulators early on in Primary, certainly the Navy could invest in a few of the latest in sims when the T-6 comes on-line. Those are just a few suggestions.

And this whole idea leaves me with a few questions. What the heck do they plan to do with the 20%? That is going to be an awful lot of people that the Navy needs to find jobs for right after they started a program (instead of spread out like they are now). What will be the impact on other communities and their accession numbers? Are they going to increase staff numbers at NASC in order to keep up with the increased hours? If not, who th eheck will want to go there for a shore tour?

This strikes me as a pretty hasty and simplistic solution to a 'problem' that may or may not really exist. I could see it blowing up in the Navy's face if they are not careful.

 

[redmidgrl]

Thanks for the heads up!

Does anyone know when this change will take place? This summer or in 7-8 months? I don't know how I feel about being a guinea pig...

 

[NozeMan]

I don't know about anyone else but I'm finding the info in API to be very useful and able to be retained.

Just make sure you understand that all that BS is an intro. The weather stuff is pretty good knowledge, but ALL of the other classes are waaayyyyy simplified compared to what you'll be expected to know in Primary/Advanced. If you go helos, you will learn a completely different version of aero....and this stuff will save your life. Nav.....is stupid in API and we don't use any of it. I don't know why they teach it that way (using a compass, etc), but you'll never prep like that. Brain dump that Nav BS when you're done (pilot, anyways). FR&R, please, PLEASE don't think that is all you have to know about the FAR/AIM and OPNAV. You will build upon it in primary and hit it VERY hard in Advanced. Systems....well it gets more complicated.

Yeah, it sucks that it's getting sped up, but it's not impossible to be successful. When I was in Primary, API looked like a joke (and it really was). Advanced (helo side) makes Primary look easy. Take it for what it's worth.