Asian alies say US can't defeat China

[FlyingBeagle]

I know this kind of thing comes up a lot, but I'd like to hear everyone's take on this.

http://www.insightmag.com/Media/MediaManager/slasheastasia_1.htm

One thing caught my eye:
"Mr. Ishihara [Tokyo Governor] said U.S. ground forces, with the exception of the Marines, are "extremely incompetent" and would be unable to stem a Chinese conventional attack. "

I'd be interested to know what his basis for saying that our Army is incompetent. Sounds like a Marine must have been translating for this guy.

 

[jamnww]

"After 2,000 casualties, he said, the U.S. military would be forced to withdraw."

If we were in a land war with China I would imagine the American public would be willing / have to accept more than 2,000 casualties...hell we have had more than that in Iraq.

I think the article is the typical crap.

 

[Red2]

" and would be unable to stem a Chinese conventional attack. "

What's that? Sending over a billion people in a death charge a la Stalingrad? He's probably right, that's why we have non-conventional weapons. :icon_rage <-- non-conventional smily.

 

[DanMa1156]

Not very educated on the topic, would someone like to shed some light onto the size/ strength of China's Navy? Do they have any carriers either?

 

[Sundown]

Everything fit to print about China

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jul2005/d20050719china.pdf

 

[KBayDog]

Mr. Ishihara said U.S. ground forces, with the exception of the Marines, are "extremely incompetent" and would be unable to stem a Chinese conventional attack.

While the gentleman is certainly entitled to his opinion, I wonder if the rest of the Japanese population would ever question the competence of the U.S. ground forces.

In fact, let's ask Emporer Hirohito just how incompetent he thinks we are. Oh, my bad...

After 2,000 casualties, he said, the U.S. military would be forced to withdraw.

Nah, not 2,000 casualties. 2,000 DAYS. Let's assume that China were, for whatever reason, to attack us. After the initial "patriotism," "We Will Never Forget" e-mails, flag-waving, 0% car financing, and benefit concerts, support would wane. A certain vocal minority in this country would start up with China being "another Vietnam," a "quagmire," an "unjust war," and would show their "patriotism" by saying, "WE SUPPORT THE TROOPS! BUT...BRING THEM HOME!"

Oh well. Time to go watch Beavis and Butthead.

 

[BigRed389]

Umm...where is China supposed to be attacking? Taiwan? Korea? Japan? Two out of three require amphibious operations.

The other requires they go through a not so friendly nation with Commander Koo Koo Bananas with his finger on the button. Commies or no, Koreans still don't like the Chinese very much either.

 

[eddie]

Nah, not 2,000 casualties. 2,000 DAYS. Let's assume that China were, for whatever reason, to attack us. After the initial "patriotism," "We Will Never Forget" e-mails, flag-waving, 0% car financing, and benefit concerts, support would wane. A certain vocal minority in this country would start up with China being "another Vietnam," a "quagmire," an "unjust war," and would show their "patriotism" by saying, "WE SUPPORT THE TROOPS! BUT...BRING THEM HOME!"

Just my personal opinion (read, no, I don't have any way of proving anything, so)... if it comes to war with China, I think you'll see a lot more of those people being supportive. I really do.

 

[HH-60H]

"Mr. Ishihara [Tokyo Governor] said U.S. ground forces, with the exception of the Marines, are "extremely incompetent" and would be unable to stem a Chinese conventional attack. "

Listening to the Governor/Mayor/whatever of Tokyo is like listening to one of our Governor/Mayor/whatever speak out of is a$$ about whatever national issues he feels like attacking based on his current political motivations. Do you think the Mayor of NYC or DC or Baltimore is remotely qualified to give an accurate and reasonable assessment of US military forces, let alone the military forces of another country?

I know you started this thread to spur discussion, I am not attacking you, but the authors of the piece.

 

[petescheu]

"After 2,000 casualties, he said, the U.S. military would be forced to withdraw."

Well at least he knows what our weakness is. I think anyone would have a tough time going at it with us, but they know how to stick the needle to the heart, all you need is the bleeding heart liberals and the left wing media. It's pretty sad when a foreign power throws out a comment like that; it makes it readily apparent how harmful those comments are that people like John Kerry, Senator Kennedy, and all the other not so bright left wingers who would spit on 2000 American soldiers graves simply for political gain throw out. And the media prints them over and over...

 

[HH-60H]

It's pretty sad when a foreign power throws out a comment like that

But that's the thing. He is not a foreign power, nor the head of one. He might as well be a private citizen, except that he has the power to sway the opinion of people because he has a soap box to stand on.

 

[Cornellianintel]

I sincerely doubt that China would even have to cross the ocean to get "f*cked up". Notwithstanding what naysayers of all stripes would have the world believe, the United States military (yes, even the Army) is the most effective killing machine in the history of the humankind. China's ability to throw men at bullets would no more secure it a victory against us than it did against the Japanese (or the Russians against the Germans in WWI). To point to conflicts like Vietnam and Iraq (which were hobbled by political and public-relations problems) as indicative of our armed forces' ineptitude is as ignorant as it is offensive. In both those wars, keep in mind, we maintained kill ratios of better than 15:1. Hell, we killed 1/7th of Vietnam's population and took over Iraq in a matter of weeks--thousands of miles from home. I don't mean to imply that political considerations shouldn't be factored into the hypothetical equation of a Sino-American war, but in such a large scale event, I think that many would be unpleasantly surprised to learn that in both Vietnam and Iraq (despite what the peaceniks assert) we showed a remarkeable restraint which would not be afforded the Chinese. I would love to ask this mayor how civic and pacific the American people were in World War II--a conflict in which we were written off as a "sleeping giant" and "paper tiger".

I wonder how successful they're little campaign would be when we (1) stopped pouring hundreds of billions of dollars (a la our ridiculous trade deficit) into their shaky (but huge) economy, (2) choked them off from the sea, and (3) introduced them to the working end of our Naval and Air Forces. I probably wouldn't even put a man on the ground until they were down to fighting with sticks.

Let's not even go nuclear...

 

[FlyingBeagle]

Allow me to preempt any attacks:
I misspelled allies. I am an idiot.

 

[zornundo]

From The Princess Bride: You only think I guessed wrong - that's what's so funny. I switched glasses when your back was turned. Ha-ha, you fool. You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is "Never get involved in a land war in Asia" - Vizzini

I guess another blunder would be never underestimate the might of the US Navy.

 

[gaijin6423]

I'm not really sure how much economic/political containment this Japanese politician wants. China is already our single biggest trading partner, as it is for many other nations, too. Hell, JAPANESE companies pump ungodly amounts of money into Korea and China, as it's generally prohibitively expensive to produce goods inside Japan itself these days. Does this guy want us to reduce our economic ties with China, instead? Gee, that sounds like a great idea.

And as far as China not letting democracy and free elections take place, how does this guy explain that democratic (read: unregulated by the Party) elections on the local, county, and in some cases provincial level have been taking place for over a decade? Granted, there is no real national level equivalent yet, but have a little patience. Better yet, look at it from China's perspective: "Okay, this whole communist thing... Not working so well, guys. But we can't just flop over to a completely free market, democratic system. Look what happened to the Russians!" China is looking more and more open all the time, but if crackpot Japanese politicians try to provoke them... Well, that might not be the best idea.

And for the record, Japanese politics aren't exactly the cleanest in the world. Big businesses (Sony, Honda, etc.) and the farmer lobby run that country, pure and simple. If you doubt me, look up how many Upper and Lower House members either sit on the boards of or own lots of stock in those big conglomerate corporations. If you dig deeper into Japanese politics, you'll find out that it gets way, way more bizarre (patronage, political party coalitions, etc.), so consider yourself warned.