Osama is on the record that he though 19 deaths would cause us to withdraw after our actions in Somalia.
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Asian alies say US can't defeat China
- Thread starter FlyingBeagle
- Start date
Osama is on the record that he though 19 deaths would cause us to withdraw after our actions in Somalia.
Cornellianintel
Registered User
Gaijin,
You're right on about the problems of the Japanese system, but I wouldn't use that as a reason to become an apologist for China. The Chinese have indeed come a very, very long way economically since they began economic liberalization in the 1970s (as a result of our political and diplomatic initiatives). Politically, however, they are still deplorably repressive at home and increasingly irresponsible in their dealings with foreign powers. Their conduct in foreign affairs is akin to a big, clumsy, petulent child grasping at ways to flex his muscles. They've made overtures about using nuclear weapons against a country that pours $200 billion more into it than it gives back. Though the deficit is inevitable (our people can afford their goods, their people can't afford ours) because of the United States' affluence, it is greatly exacerbated by the intentional devaluation of their currency relative to ours (making our goods even more expensive for their people, and theirs cheapers for ours). Couple this with their harsh rhetoric concerning Taiwan, (which I would diplomatically recognize while China is still militarily weak) their religious intolerance, and their self-confessed desire to drive us our of Southeast Asia, and you'll see where the Japanese mayor is coming from. He seems pretty ignorant of our military capabilities, but he seems to understand something that our bullsh*tting government won't acknowledge; China is not our friend. Good will is not their motivation for avoiding showdowns with us; practical necessity is. You better believe that as soon as they think they can get away with it, they'll make trouble for us in SE Asia.
Who the hell understates their military spending in peacetime anyway?
Tools...
You're right on about the problems of the Japanese system, but I wouldn't use that as a reason to become an apologist for China. The Chinese have indeed come a very, very long way economically since they began economic liberalization in the 1970s (as a result of our political and diplomatic initiatives). Politically, however, they are still deplorably repressive at home and increasingly irresponsible in their dealings with foreign powers. Their conduct in foreign affairs is akin to a big, clumsy, petulent child grasping at ways to flex his muscles. They've made overtures about using nuclear weapons against a country that pours $200 billion more into it than it gives back. Though the deficit is inevitable (our people can afford their goods, their people can't afford ours) because of the United States' affluence, it is greatly exacerbated by the intentional devaluation of their currency relative to ours (making our goods even more expensive for their people, and theirs cheapers for ours). Couple this with their harsh rhetoric concerning Taiwan, (which I would diplomatically recognize while China is still militarily weak) their religious intolerance, and their self-confessed desire to drive us our of Southeast Asia, and you'll see where the Japanese mayor is coming from. He seems pretty ignorant of our military capabilities, but he seems to understand something that our bullsh*tting government won't acknowledge; China is not our friend. Good will is not their motivation for avoiding showdowns with us; practical necessity is. You better believe that as soon as they think they can get away with it, they'll make trouble for us in SE Asia.
Who the hell understates their military spending in peacetime anyway?
Tools...
This is a very good point. Let us not be foolish and underestimate this giant.:icon_slee
gaijin6423
Ask me about ninjas!
Cornell, I see where your coming from, and to a large extent I agree. I wasn't trying to appologize for the Chinese, just trying to provide a little emphasis against the Tokyo fella. ...And maybe to stoke up the fires a bit, as well. As for appologizing for Chinese: Never. I find it impossible to come up with any statement that would justify the hell that Mao, Deng Xiaoping, and many others wrought on that country. They HAVE been making some progress, but the military paranoia they exhibit can be downright frightening. But how much of their sabre rattling is nothing more than that? They have shown a tendancy to kill, torture, intimidate, etc. their own people, though. (A fact one of my professors from the USNA can attest to.)
Like somene else mentioned, though, if we underestimate China as it continues to grow into its desired role of regional toughguy we're going to get bit in the ass.
Like somene else mentioned, though, if we underestimate China as it continues to grow into its desired role of regional toughguy we're going to get bit in the ass.
exactly
Anyway, someone else posted earlier, that for the at least the first part of this war, it would be conventional -- meaning we could use our air force. I know we all kind of laugh at them, but honestly, if we were in a conventional war with a nation (read: China) then the Air Force I'm sure would be of use and would be superior. We have to remember the early 90s were geared towards making the Air Force the senior service and all that influx of cash generated some cool toys for them to use, the F-22, improved F-15s, and of course a huge stockpile of F-16s, not to mention all their underground silos, B-2s, and F-117s. As much as we make fun of them, they'd be pretty kick ass. I'm pretty sure we could own the sky along with the sea.
But how to deal with the Chinese for now? Not sure... They too have alot of internal problems. As they get richer/more educated, I predict that the current government structure will continue to crumble. They know they can't stay communistic forever. At the same time, they are running into problems the world is noticing and they are trying to cover up (SARS, Bird Flu, Single Largest Water Shortage in history), as well as just the pains associated with such a large population. The next 10-20 years will prove very interesting in China...
I see what you're getting at...but actually we pulled our ground forces OUT of Japan in order to defeat them. I think the Japanese population would be perfectly entitled to question the competence of US Army ground forces, but certainly not the competence of American "nucular" technologies.
Let's admit it, the Army's like public school with cammies on. Now the Marines on the other hand...we'll the article makes the point.
UInavy said:
The point being that public schools, like the Army, are inclusive, rather than selective or exclusive, as opposed to the Marines, which is small, mobile, elite. Of course, it has to be this way in order to maintain a sizeable general infantry.
I've got some buddies in Army medschool who enjoy it, but man, some of the Army O's just seem to be amazingly sub par. I just got rescue diver certified and my assigned dive buddy was a soon-to-be-promoted Army O-5...by the end of the training I couldn't believe the guy had earned a commission.
"then the Air Force I'm sure would be of use and would be superior."
"I'm pretty sure we could own the sky along with the sea."
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/default.asp
Let's not get too cocky now.:icon_smil
"I'm pretty sure we could own the sky along with the sea."
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/default.asp
Let's not get too cocky now.:icon_smil
UInavy said:
It's not my intention to seriously disparage any of our forces. Just informally opining here.
The example given was only my most recent experience with an Army O and it just reinforced an unimportant generalization. This guy wouldn’t have been able to step foot in Quantico (and certainly not Pensacola, although he unsurprisingly wore Navy PT shorts throughout training). I'm sure there are lots of great commissioned officers in the Army, but the overall quality of O between Marines and Army is, it seems to me, beyond debate. And the Navy's Officer Corps is anything but inclusive in the same way.
Cornellianintel
Registered User
By the way,
I was calling the Chinese tools, not anyone on the board.
I was calling the Chinese tools, not anyone on the board.
Now, let me preface this statement with the following disclaimer so that the Marines don't get their panties all knotted up. I love Marines like my very own retarded stepchildren (AW smiles
), but let us dispense with this mythical notion that they are some kind of all powerful uber-service that is the shining star of the U.S. military. They are well suited for their unique mission, yes, but they have their fair share of sh!t hot performers as well as fvck-ups - just like every other service.Again, this is not a dig on Marines (repeat three times), but just a point of order for young Oztin to consider, so please, please, please do not reply with stories about how much the Marines kick ass and what not, or I swear to God, I'll kill myself!
. I know you understand. 
Brett
Now, let me preface this statement with the following disclaimer so that the Marines don't get their panties all knotted up. I love Marines like my very own retarded stepchildren (AW smiles
Again, this is not a dig on Marines (repeat three times), but just a point of order for young Oztin to consider, so please, please, please do not reply with stories about how much the Marines kick ass and what not, or I swear to God, I'll kill myself!
Brett
Precisely. There are things the Marines are very well suited for and are absolutely experts on. And there are things the Marines couldn't ever hope to do that the Army is built for.
Fair enough. I can appreciate Fly Navy's bold faith in the Army and I'd just as soon trust that a statement like "there are things the Marines couldn't ever hope to do that the Army is built for" is more solid than inflated.
Now, let me preface this statement with the following disclaimer so that the Marines don't get their panties all knotted up. I love Marines like my very own retarded stepchildren (AW smiles
Again, this is not a dig on Marines (repeat three times), but just a point of order for young Oztin to consider, so please, please, please do not reply with stories about how much the Marines kick ass and what not, or I swear to God, I'll kill myself!
Brett
There's all kinds of "mythical notions" such as to why any of us would be willing to die for our country. Some mythical notions are simply worth dying for. Democracy in the Middle East might be one. It may come to pass, but right now, it's little more than a "mythical notion." Just cause something's a little mythical, doesn't mean it ain't true to me. Myths are just beliefs.
Next to SFs, the Marines are the shining star of the U.S. military.
gaijin6423
Ask me about ninjas!
While it's always nice to have your ego stroked, things are not always as they seem. Do we (Marines) do very well with relatively little? Yep, always have, and always will. Are we perfect, movitivated, divine instruments of death and destruction? Arguable, but quite possibly this is the case. Are we perfect? Not just no, but hell no. I won't air too much of our dirty laundry in public, but we jarheads have some issues, just like every other service in this country's military. That's just the way it goes.
More on topic, this non-perfection definitely carries over to the Chinese, but I'll elaborate later, when I'm not completely tanked.
More on topic, this non-perfection definitely carries over to the Chinese, but I'll elaborate later, when I'm not completely tanked.