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USN ASW Nerds Rejoice!
- Thread starter ChuckMK23
- Start date
Hooray for a return to Awfully Slow Warfare 😎
Through our preflight insertion data that we maintain via TACMOBILE. We will keep a buoy load plan on there that is usable most of the time and edit it on preflight to what we are actually taking.
On the subject of subs, tonights Major League Baseball game between Atlanta and Cincinnati is sponsored by none other than the US Navy and buildsubmarines.com
I find it remarkable that there is some hope that our native labor force is capable of building ships and subs. How quaint!
I find it remarkable that there is some hope that our native labor force is capable of building ships and subs. How quaint!
Admittedly it's been three years, but that doesn't sound like JMPS, so I'm guessing that's something that's Boeing specific?
That sounds hot. Is that like VP foreplay?
Yeah, probably. That article is encouraging but ... low birthrates and we are exiting a large part of our labor pool. I think we need immigrants if we are going to build or manufacture anything at scale.
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But what? No one said it would happen in a few months. It took Toyota’s FAME apprenticeship program three years to spool up, but they no longer suffer for manufacturing talent. American workers aren’t lazy, they are ill informed. Since the 1980’s we’ve told kids the only way to get ahead is to get a college degree, the problem is that in the 1960’s and ‘70’s we were telling them to get one in engineering but the the 80’s that became a degree in anything…and by the new century that anything turned to near meaningless mush. So, yeah, we have an educated population that pours a decent coffee.
Yes, most manufacturing jobs need to pay more. Yes, manufacturing suffers from poor PR that has some people thinking that these jobs are in smoke-filled, dark, buildings with giant iron machines bending and crushing stuff. Those, however, are easy to get over. I believe we are very close to crossing that line (younger people call it a “vibe shift”) and they are slowly coming to the realization that they can either build something…or serve coffee.
Not Boeing specific necessarily, just P-8 specific. But it’s a similar concept to JMPS. And PID definitely not hot, but if you mess it up it will definitely fuck you!
Couldn’t agree more with this. In addition, pay hasn’t kept pace with inflation. So, you can be a barista and make nearly the same amount as an apprentice. Additionally, said barista doesn’t need to clear a drug test or security clearance check.
We also don’t have a good foreman cadre. You need this as much as skilled labor. We have all seen the shop without a CPO that’s run by the newly frocked PO1. That’s what’s going on.
To complicate matters, shop classes disappeared so even basic apprentice training has to start at a lower level.
We also got punch drunk on coding. AI can build code, but it can’t rebuild a motor.
I believe it will be a long road to get to the vision that you and @Griz882 describe. Look at the trend in airliner MRO sites the last 10-20 years. Central America, South America, Asia, Eastern Europe.. etc. I'm not saying you're wrong its just that the economics of labor, even skilled technical labor wins out in poorer countries with lower standards of living.
Also if this is going to work, it will be meaningless without affordable housing and access to homeownership. Well paying meaningful work requiring trained and educated people is just one half of the equation. Want a shipbuilding boom? Get new home starts going in the shipyard communities and get incentives for developers to build 1500 sq foot 3 bedroom starter homes for under $200K.
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A lot more complicated - only certified yards in the US can do the work. Nuclear work can only be done in yards in the US with yards with a license.
We also added a bunch of additional production requirements when AUKUS was signed.
And don’t forget, it’s not just the yards - it’s all the subcontractors supporting the supply chain.
We don’t do depot work on Hornets or Seahawks outside of the US (small exception for Japan).
Just building a bunch of affordable houses won’t cut it. You need safe neighborhoods, at least average schools, some basic quality of life like parking garages able to house enough cars for two shifts (just outside the yard), and a bonus structure that goes to both blue and white collars.
Poaching amongst yards is also getting pretty competitive in Hampton Roads.
Like many issues, it’s a wicked problem beyond multivariate calculus.
This is one of the big things Korean and Japanese shipyards do. They invest their funds into developing communities for their workforce. And yeah, a skilled blue collar worker can make it a real career with a middle class life.
I haven’t been to the Hampton Roads or Pascagoula shipyards in a while…but I would bet quality of life at both hasn’t really gotten better.