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Aviator progression in the Navy
- Thread starter Warner
- Start date
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
If you're asking if you can elect to stay in Fleet flying jobs OR go on a command track, the answer is no. The Navy operates on an up-or-out system. There's a series of screen boards for Dept Head, Command (squadron) and Major Command (air wing, big boat). If you don't screen, and you at least pick up O-4, guys generally can stick around 'til 20, but probably won't be in flying jobs.
Of course, your mileage will vary. The rules and "what's typical" change depending on retention rates. Ability to find a flying job somewhere also depends greatly on your community. It's difficult to predict this stuff for guys who are up for screen right now, never mind however far in the future you're talking about. Worry about getting winged and out to the Fleet, you've got plenty of time to "be anxious" about your career.
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MasterBates
Well-Known Member
And whatever you do, never let it be known you are considering any path other than CNO or bust before the end of your first fleet tour. And by end, I mean you are on your way to shore duty with a signed FITREP in hand.
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Also, don't assume that one person's experiences represent what you will see. Some folks around here have some rather peculiar (and often easily understood) career paths. One person can survive a PEP tour, another can not. One person can survive a first tour high water MP, another can not.
In some communities you can stay in the cockpit for 12 consecutive years (at the same duty station) without negative career implications....
In some communities you can stay in the cockpit for 12 consecutive years (at the same duty station) without negative career implications....
Staying in the cockpit up through DH is relatively easy in pretty much any community. I know guys who've done 12 years in the same hangar, and on careerist track. I think he was asking about beyond that.
This was true back in the day, I went from O-1 to O-5 & retirement in the A-4 cockpit (except for one boat tour in C-1A cockpit). Didn't seem to hurt career though, although there was no DH screen hoop to jump through back then. Didn't know that was still possible today.
BzB
For the young'uns out there, this ^^^ certainly comes across as cynical. It's also good advice.
When it comes to fitreps, the CO only has so much love to give out. Good COs take pride in rewarding good people- say your CO has two people who have done a lot of hard work, one of whom wants to take the aviation "golden career path" (JO, FRS, dissoc/super JO, DH OPS/MO, joint, XO/CO) while the other expresses, ahem, ambivalence to that path, and interest in trying something that is different and uncertain, then... There are also some COs out there who, when a young officer doesn't want to follow in their footsteps and become exactly like them, seem to get confused or almost take personal offense (admittedly, he/she worked his ass off to get to that position, and we should respect our elders, even the ones who may be a little narrow-minded). You'll work for both kinds.
The notion that everyone should literally be on track to be CNO (or Commandant, COS, etc.) is absurd, but try to think of it as an abstract concept instead of taking it literally. That means everybody is supposed to do as best as they can ("documented sustained superior performance...") so that they can earn a tough set of orders for their next tour ("...in critical/tough/challenging/operational/etc. billets"), and lather, rinse, repeat. That's your detailer's starting position when you are negotiating orders because that is his job. The catch is that a lot of good deals that aren't on the golden career path also need decent fitreps. If you're interested in taking a different path, unfortunately then that puts a lot of onus on you to figure out when/to whom/how to talk about it.
That doesn't mean you need to play a charade and act like a kool-aid drinkin' company man at your every waking moment, it just means to use your common sense.
Not as standard on the helo side, but as everyone has noted, nothing is "standard."
That said, to answer the question generally, after your shore-tour and then "disassociated" sea tour (this means different things to different communities, the track is to get picked up for Department Head. You'll serve in a deploying squadron with the intention of eventually becoming the OpsO or Maint. Off. After that, you'll roll to some sort of shore tour (usually staff, but it varies) while you wait to be selected for O-5 and possibly CO. From there, it's off to another staff tour (or some good deal you can figure out) or to be a squadron XO and CO. Depending on your timing, you may be at or very close to 20 at that point. For helo guys, usually not quite that close.
Roger all, and thanks for all your responses. Getting into the whole XO/CO aspect somewhere around 20 years in, is that specifically aircraft squadron XO/CO, or does that also vary. I'd think they'd want you to stick to what you know, as opposed to making you skipper of a sub when most of your career has been on a carrier. Although have to say I wouldn't hate the idea of being a sub commander...
Alright, Pat, the adults here have to talk about adult things. We need you to start packing up your toys and go on home now.
If you have a horse and cart, and your horse is in NY with you, the cart is somewhere in Colorado.
If on an aviation career track, completing your XO/CO tour will be somewhere between 18-20 years (-ish), depending on your community. If you go on, the only ship CO tours you'll have the potential to fill is some sort of surface ship, but we're talking so far down the road that anything info we have now will be so out of date it doesn't really matter.
Pat - What was meant by this post is that you need to focus on the "closest alligator to the boat."
It's admirable that you'd be willing to command a submarine someday, but your profile says you're a college stud who is applying for a SNA board this year. Make the board and kicking ass in college your focus right now. When/if the board decides in your favor, turn your attention to kicking ass in OCS...then API...then Primary...etc, etc, etc. At each step in your career, you'll know where your focus needs to lie, and as others have already stated, any specific long-term career advice dispensed right now will be null and void by the time I submit this post.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to win the Super Bowl...but you need to cut your teeth with a little Pop Warner action first.
It's admirable that you'd be willing to command a submarine someday, but your profile says you're a college stud who is applying for a SNA board this year. Make the board and kicking ass in college your focus right now. When/if the board decides in your favor, turn your attention to kicking ass in OCS...then API...then Primary...etc, etc, etc. At each step in your career, you'll know where your focus needs to lie, and as others have already stated, any specific long-term career advice dispensed right now will be null and void by the time I submit this post.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to win the Super Bowl...but you need to cut your teeth with a little Pop Warner action first.
All good points. I'm just a bit anxious, I guess; my recruiter submitted said application last week, so now I'm playing the waiting game until January when the board will be handing out pro-rec's, so I thought I'd look for some info so I'm better prepared down the road. But you're certainly right that I could stand to prioritize a bit better.
At any rate, thanks again for all the help, you guys.