Can you shave your head at OCS?

[eas7888]

On the subject of OCS being harder than boot camp. . .I can't testify to Navy/Marine Corps initial entry training, but on the Army side, the training was much more physically intense. The beatings were as bad/worse than what we had at OCS, and there was significantly more marching around with body armor and rifles. Academically, however, OCS was significantly harder. In B.C.T. all you had to do was show up when you were told to in the proscribed uniform, and you would be alright. At OCS, there was a crap ton of information to memorize in a short period of time, so it was a thinking man's game. YMMV.

As far as being 'different' at OCS. Take the advice of others. Don't shave your head, just look like everyone else for the time being. Don't show up to OCS with a big ass beard, mutton chops, or dreads. You'll definitely get a reputation. And yak, I know who you're referring to, as he was my hatchmate for three weeks as well. Luckily, he actually HELPED me pass my RLP.

And I can't imagine why you were on anyone's radar, French Toast Sticks, it's not like you were a good foot taller than 90% of the class.

 

[MasterBates]

What is a "hatchmate" at OCS? I take it this is a Newport change.

 

[Angry]

We were told by one of the DI's that Navy OCS was more difficult than Marine OCS - but I have absolutely NO experience with Marine OCS so that's based purely off what this one DI's opinion was. From the stories of those who came before it sounds like the physical difficulty of Navy OCS has decreased somewhat in recent years - rabdo, injuries, and a significant percentage of each class rolling used to be the norm according to legend, while none of those things are common place anymore. It might be higher standards for entry, it might be the program has gotten softer, it might be something completely different. All I know is that regardless of how much it changed it was an unpleasant experience - "the most fun you never want to have again."

 

[eas7888]

What is a "hatchmate" at OCS? I take it this is a Newport change.

Roommate, same thing.

 

[Harrier Dude]

We were told by one of the DI's that Navy OCS was more difficult than Marine OCS.

Not true. They both suck hard in different ways.

 

[Angry]

I have no problem believing that - it was the opinion of one DI, not mine. At the very least the added requirement of attending TBS for 6 months after OCS makes the Marine accession process that much more difficult.

 

[Harrier Dude]

The punitive PT (beatings as you guys now call them) are worse in the navy. The organized PT was worse at Marine OCS.

More people get kicked out or injured at Marine OCS. Much harder to hang out and hide there.

The DOR policy was much more strictly adhered to at AOCS.

This, of course, is all based on experience 20+ years ago, so maybe it's changed.

If anything, I suspect navy OCS is easier than AOCS, and USMC OCS has changed many of their criteria since then (some easier and some harder).

 

[MasterBates]

We were told by one of the DI's that Navy OCS was more difficult than Marine OCS - but I have absolutely NO experience with Marine OCS so that's based purely off what this one DI's opinion was. From the stories of those who came before it sounds like the physical difficulty of Navy OCS has decreased somewhat in recent years - rabdo, injuries, and a significant percentage of each class rolling used to be the norm according to legend, while none of those things are common place anymore. It might be higher standards for entry, it might be the program has gotten softer, it might be something completely different. All I know is that regardless of how much it changed it was an unpleasant experience - "the most fun you never want to have again."

I went to OCS July-September 01.

We had ~40 or so people to start. Perhaps 20 of us graduated in 13 weeks. Of the other 20, one girl had been there 13 MONTHS. Stress fractures in her hips IIRC. (Kmac might be able to remember it better than me) and there were multiple people who rolled 2-3 or more times, often with MONTHS between pickups.

We started with one DI who left quickly, to go to Warrant Officer school, then had EVERY DI for about a week, and then ended up with GySgt Cagle.
He was the epitomy of tough, but fair. Great American. We were his last class.

I'd say of the priors, it was about 50-50. We had two prior SEALs in the class, they both did well (one going back to SEALs, other to NFO) and the "senior" Priors (Sully, Luoto, Chief) did real well. My roommate was a Nuke Chief, and he did pretty well, but he was "old" (35) and he didn't bounce back from injuries as fast as some of us and spent weeks with shin issues but toughed it out. We had more than one PT until someone pukes in the SUYA or Rose Garden.

I remember Senior Chief Lucas being more feared than most of the DIs save GySgt Roquemore at one point. Rocky was the KING of Diamond pushups. "DIAMOND PUSHUPS.. WE WILL DO A SHITLOAD OF THEM! READY! BEGIN!"

I, along with half the class went down with Cellulitis, and other "filith" diseases. Root cause in my recollection was we mopped the floors with lukewarm water, in Pensacola summer humidity, with no soap/bleach/etc.

When I was a Candio, I asked Senior Chief Lucas if I could buy some bleach to mop with. He gave me a personal SUYA session for even suggesting that 110 degree water does not kill shit. But then we ended up with bleach shortly after, when one dude almost lost a leg to a random staph infection.

 

[MasterBates]

Hit reply too soon.. The priors (as a whole that I saw at OCS, not just my class)that had the worst issues were in the E-3 to junior E-5 range that though they made it through boot, so this Officer shit must be fork and knife school. (that was across the street at ODS/OIS?)

 

[BUDU]

We were told by one of the DI's that Navy OCS was more difficult than Marine OCS - but I have absolutely NO experience with Marine OCS so that's based purely off what this one DI's opinion was. From the stories of those who came before it sounds like the physical difficulty of Navy OCS has decreased somewhat in recent years - rabdo, injuries, and a significant percentage of each class rolling used to be the norm according to legend, while none of those things are common place anymore. It might be higher standards for entry, it might be the program has gotten softer, it might be something completely different. All I know is that regardless of how much it changed it was an unpleasant experience - "the most fun you never want to have again."

I remember my class officer giving us a bit of a speech about it--he'd swing by our p-way and have conversations from time to time. He had a hand in the changes, and he said one of the big reasons for the shift was that the program was creating well-disciplined people who were good at doing what they were told to do, but it wasn't creating well-rounded officers. Obviously I can't testify as to which version of OCS was more effective...but that was the reasoning we were given.

 

[MasterBates]

The version of OCS I went to in Pensacola was modeled after AOCS (from my understanding, OCS in Newport closed down, and AOCS started training more than Pilot/NFOs), and was better geared towards flight school, where not following weird instructions to the T could get you killed in short order long before you had a chance to do "leadership" beyond being a form lead in Primary.

I've kind of developed a position that leadership is born, perhaps nurtured, but cannot totally be taught. Some people can quote every kind of leadership, every leadership "tool" and quote books here and there, but can't lead an overweight cop to the donut shop.

 

[Angry]

I remember my class officer giving us a bit of a speech about it--he'd swing by our p-way and have conversations from time to time. He had a hand in the changes, and he said one of the big reasons for the shift was that the program was creating well-disciplined people who were good at doing what they were told to do, but it wasn't creating well-rounded officers. Obviously I can't testify as to which version of OCS was more effective...but that was the reasoning we were given.

This makes a lot of sense as the catalyst for the change, although I share your position of not being able to comment on which format was more effective having only experienced one. I just know that based on my time there (Oct '11 to Jan '12), most if not all of what MasterBates described with respect to health and difficulty were not in evidence. That being said, my DI made a point to keep us healthy because he knew we would learn/perform like crap if we were ill, and he saw no point in having us roll just because we were sick. My class graduated with minimal losses - we had 2 roll for RLP, 2 for Outpost, none for PT related issues, none for 6th week/8th week PI. Our DI definitely put the hurt on us ROYALLY on some days, and we were by no means physical superstars, but if you had your stuff together you weren't going to be put in a position to roll/DOR.

We were told stories of AOCS while we were there, and that program sounded downright vicious compared to what we were going through. DI's jumping on tables while candidates were eating in chow hall - stepping on the trays and screaming in the faces of OC's, writing stuff on the walls in shoe polish and throwing foot powder all over the room, etc...

 

[natheo]

I've kind of developed a position that leadership is born, perhaps nurtured, but cannot totally be taught. Some people can quote every kind of leadership, every leadership "tool" and quote books here and there, but can't lead an overweight cop to the donut shop.

Took an entire class on this stuff. That's why the above jumped out at me. I agree with your position that leadership cannot totally be taught, but I think leadership is something gained through experience more than anything else. It was a dumb class though, loaded with the platitudes that you mentioned.

 

[OnTopTime]

We were told stories of AOCS while we were there, and that program sounded downright vicious compared to what we were going through. DI's jumping on tables while candidates were eating in chow hall - stepping on the trays and screaming in the faces of OC's, writing stuff on the walls in shoe polish and throwing foot powder all over the room, etc...

You mean that stuff doesn't happen anymore? Damn. We had a guy in my class at AOCS (maybe more than one) that forgot to lock his wall locker, and everything got tossed. It was called a hurricane, and it left the room a mess, including the foot powder all over. It was a fairly frequent occurence at AOCS. The real test was to see how the roommates and the rest of the class reacted; whether they all pulled together to get the shit cleaned up, or instead made the guy feel even worse by dumping on him for forgetting to secure the lock. We had guys in my class (myself included) that got physically jacked up by the DIs; i.e. grabbed by the front of the shirt and thrown against the wall with your feet off the floor. I would be surprised if that still happened. Having a DI scream in someone's face was pretty much an hourly occurence, at least in the first half of the program (and AOCS was 15 weeks long, because all the API stuff was integrated into the program). Surely the DIs still get up close and personal with a loud voice, right?

 

[MasterBates]

On Top Time,

Sounds like your AOCS experience was close to what we had in 2001. Hurricanes, beatings and being hosed down in the SUYA

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