Carrier deployments

[picklesuit]

Watching a great 12-year First Class PO get sent packing due to PTS, having shore tour cut short to extend sea tour, having heard, many times, "your family wasn't issued in your seabag"...If you want to succeed in this Navy, you work loooong hours, even at home (any of you O-4 types work less than 12-hours a day?...any?) the Navy gets theirs. My brief to my Sailors is as follows:
You joined to serve your country, you are going to do that. It is service, not fun party 9-5 job. That means you need to get every ounce back out of the Navy you can; MGIB, TA, understand how your service can translate to credits, get that A&P license...you are going to earn it, get yours. Put your family before your service, they will be there long after the Navy is. I cannot say I have always followed this advice.


TINS: I am currently at home instead of on deployment (2 months early) fixing the mistakes I have made in my life that have affected my family. I spent too many hours at work fighting for that #1 EP instead of paying attention to my wife and kids. I missed soccer games, medical appointments, birthdays, anniversaries, etc. I told my wife that she had to "suck it up" when she called me and the kids were in the closed pattern around her and she was trying to get stuff done and was overwhelmed. I worked so fucking hard at my job, quals, PQS, and flying, and when I would finally get home, I was too tired to do anything other than sit down on the couch, yell at the kids for making noise during Family Guy, and bitch at my wife because the house was dirty and the dinner wasn't made (sound familiar anyone?)
Result: 4 hours into a 5th fleet mission this past weekend I got word from the command to "RTB immediately, as per Skipper." We landed, 2000 pounds overweight (again, as directed) to expedite. I was met by the CO, XO, OPSO, and SNO, and was informed that my wife had attempted suicide. She had swallowed an entire bottle of anti-depressants and a neighbor had called an ambulance.

I, personally, have been blessed with a great Skipper, a great command, and especially a great wardroom. When the time came for them to step up, they met me with plane tickets home and orders in triplicate to take care of my family. But I got to that bad of a situation doing service for this Navy, and burned my family in the process. I don't feel like I did "extra" work, I did the work required for my job.

9 hours later I was on a flight home with 24 long hours by myself on a plane or in a terminal to think about all the mistakes I had made while she was fighting for her life in a hospital. Longest fucking day of my life.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Navy. Anyone that has flown/served/worked with me can vouch for that. I love to fly, I love leading Sailors, I even love the P-3. I have enjoyed my service, I would encourage anyone who wants a great opportunity to do something real with their lives that has a positive impact on the world to join. I am still commited to making Skipper, and being the first P-3 CNO. But I also am upfront about the toll it takes on you and your family.

This is not the Navy's fault. I was incapable of balancing my career and my family. I was too good at compartmentalizing at work and not good enough at home. I would like to say I am the exception to the rule when it comes to marriage and the Navy, but the numbers don't lie, the military divorce rates are above the National divorce rates.Suicide rates are well above national rates...this job is hard on your life.

That was my point. We are talking about it on a blog for Officers and potential Officers, not in the smokepit around my Sailors, we can be blunt.
Pickle

 

[HAL Pilot]

Bottom line: If this career sucks SO bad, why do so many want to stay and claim to be "fucked" when the final buzzer sounds?

...

Easy, I believed in the job and mission. That I didn't like the ways of Big Navy at times did not change that. Further, during my active duty time, Big Navy did some fucked up things but not a near the level I see it doing now. Today's Navy is much more instrusive and much less user friendly. If I was starting today, I'd still join because I feel the cause is important enough that I should do my part, but I probably would not make it a career.

No one said Big Navy broke the contract. They can "fuck" you without doing so. It's written competely to their advantage. I signed knowing this and accepting this.

I have never said I regret one minute of the time I spent on active duty. I don't. Despite it all I look back at my Navy career with feelings of great satisfaction and accomplishment. I enjoyed what I was doing even if I didn't always enjoy how it was getting done.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Pickle - that's damn rough. You have my deepest sympathies and hopes that Mrs. Pickle quickly recovers.

 

[e6bflyer]

Pickle,
Tough situation. I am deeply sorry that it ended up the way it did. I also know it is tough to air your personal business in a forum like this. Not every spouse/family is equipped to handle the stresses of absence and deployment exactly the same. It is easy to blame yourself for things like this, and I am sure that you would change things if you could. I guess what I am saying is as much as your wife's suicide attempt is a shitty situation, it ain't your fault, brother.
The Navy can be tough on families. I have personally witnessed several divorces as the direct result of long separations. I highly agree with the point that you are trying to drive home. The Navy, while an important part of your life, is temporary. There have been some uncomfortable times in my career when I have had to tell either my family or my command that I don't think I can do what they are asking me to do. In the end, it has worked out for all parties involved. Go figure.
Stay strong, brother, and don't blame yourself.

 

[picklesuit]

Thanks to all for the thoughts, etc. Mrs. Pickle is going to be fine, long road ahead for recovery. Big shift in my life, big shift in our relationship. She read and approved my previous post, figured if one family can avoid our shit, it is worth it.
Pickle

 

[picklesuit]

Easy, I believed in the job and mission.

This...

 

[MIDNJAC]

I see a lot of what you just posted in my own life, and probably that of a lot of the people I know. Like yourself, I have a great Skipper/front office that loves us and loves the families, but that only goes so far. They can't shield us from everyone. Your comment about "compartmentalization" is especially true. Anyway, I hope Mrs Pickle and the little Pickles are doing ok, and go ride some f'ing horses or something with her once she can get out and about. Horses are about 10,000,000 times cooler than any P-3 anyway

 

[scoolbubba]

I see a lot of what you just posted in my own life, and probably that of a lot of the people I know. Like yourself, I have a great Skipper/front office that loves us and loves the families, but that only goes so far. They can't shield us from everyone. Your comment about "compartmentalization" is especially true. Anyway, I hope Mrs Pickle and the little Pickles are doing ok, and go ride some f'ing horses or something with her once she can get out and about. Horses are about 10,000,000 times cooler than any P-3 anyway

So apply the appropriate "can make a hot pocket while flying/take a piss or a nap" factor of 10 and you're admitting that the mighty orion is 100 million times cooler than a bug. Got it.

 

[Renegade One]

Easy, I believed in the job and mission...

Roger ALL and copy. We can chat more later. I think we're all taking a pause for Picklesuit and his family right now and wishing him/them all the best.

 

[robav8r]

This is not the Navy's fault. I was incapable of balancing my career and my family. I was too good at compartmentalizing at work and not good enough at home. I would like to say I am the exception to the rule when it comes to marriage and the Navy, but the numbers don't lie, the military divorce rates are above the National divorce rates.Suicide rates are well above national rates...this job is hard on your life.

Pickle - sorry to hear about your wife & family. In time, I know you will put the pieces back together and move forward. I disagree with your personal assessment that you were "incapable" of balancing your career and family. Sometimes unfortunate things happen to great people and awesome families. You did your job, a "profession" that demands far more than most. I've been doing this for 31 years, at times it sucks and makes you question everything. But as R1 has elluded to, we are all here because we passionately believe in service to country and something much bigger than ourselves and yes, even our families at times. We can discuss the notion of "putting your family" first over the military another time. Clearly, now is the time to take care of yours.

 

[picklesuit]

Roger ALL and copy. We can chat more later. I think we're all taking a pause for Picklesuit and his family right now and wishing him/them all the best.

Fight's on, you guys won't hurt my feelings debating the Navy. I packed my big girl panties in my seabag when I came home...
Pickle

 

[bert]

For Pickle - the Navy won't get any more or less screwed up while you take care of the home front. Do the right thing there - I'm glad your command recognized that that is where your responsibility is.

(Pickle owned his role so what I'm about to write isn't about him, but his honesty opened up this conversation).

Whether you are counseling your guys or trying to keep your own family situation under control, it is important to realize that the Navy may not be the real source of your problems. Getting out is not an instant or permanent solution to your family issues. More uncertainty over job security, potentially less money, and (if you do make good money) just as long hours can put the same or similar stresses on your family. And the stresses of the Navy life - while very real - sometimes get blamed when there are other issues underneath.

Don't get me wrong, getting out may really be a solution to family problems. But those of us who have been around awhile can cite far too many instances of folks who got out "for family reasons" who went on to regret it.

 

[Brett327]

I respect Pickle for taking ownership of his issues and not blaming the Navy environment. I suspect this kind of thing happens more often than we would think on the civilian side of life as well, where ambitious people are trying to balance work and family... and not always succeeding. Pickle, your story got me thinking - I imagine that prior guys who have an established family tend to have a more difficult time making the transition from the E to O world than prior single guys or non-priors. Having that spousal support network is so important, particularly during deployment. If "prior" wives aren't fitting in to the social fabric of the squadron, that could lead to a lot of stress.

Pickle, to the extent that you're comfortable with this subject, could you speak to that part of your family's integration into the squadron? I appreciate your openness in talking about your situation and hope that others can gain from your perspective.

 

[Recovering LSO]

Are the professional challenges Pickle writes of more common in MPRA? I suspect that larger summary groups and a less transparent detailing process causes more people to crush themselves trying to break out of the pack.? My experience is limited to small summary groups (7-12 LTs in a summary group), and folks usually have a pretty good idea where they stand and what their future holds.

 

[Brett327]

Are the professional challenges Pickle writes of more common in MPRA? I suspect that larger summary groups and a less transparent detailing process causes more people to crush themselves trying to break out of the pack.? My experience is limited to small summary groups (7-12 LTs in a summary group), and folks usually have a pretty good idea where they stand and what their future holds.

A good point. In my three Prowler squadrons, I've always known exactly where I stood and didn't have to try very hard to compete with anyone in order to break out.