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CAS and the Rhino driver

SteveG75

SteveG75

Retired and starting that second career
None
Of course, I remember doing CAS the old fashioned way. No sparklers, no talk-ons. 6 minute hack, 200' run, pop to 1600', roll, find the mark, in hot, pickle, off safe.

Using this cockpit:
A-6E%20TRAM%20Intruder.JPG
A-6E%20TRAM%20Intruder%20BN.JPG


Normal load was 12 Mk-82's but the Marines were known to do CAS with 28 Mk-82's per a jet.
 
Lawman

Lawman

Well-Known Member
None
So Steve would you normally release a full 12 (or in the case of the Marines 28) or did you typically keep some for later?
 
skidkid

skidkid

CAS Czar
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Very rarely in training do you want them to release all their bombs in one pass unless they are way short on gas. Multiple runs, multiple controls are definitely the way to go.

Even in combat a target worthy of 12 or 28 Mk-82s is rare, the Intruders had lots of gas so I would think better to keep them on station for the next target that pops up.

Must have been nice having a CAS player check in with 28 Mk-82s and 2+00 playtime-tell me again why we lost that capability.
 
Zilch

Zilch

This...is...Caketown!
skidkid said:
Very rarely in training do you want them to release all their bombs in one pass unless they are way short on gas. Multiple runs, multiple controls are definitely the way to go.

Even in combat a target worthy of 12 or 28 Mk-82s is rare, the Intruders had lots of gas so I would think better to keep them on station for the next target that pops up.

Must have been nice having a CAS player check in with 28 Mk-82s and 2+00 playtime-tell me again why we lost that capability.
Click to expand...

A-6's weren't pointy on the front, which is crucial for CAS. :p
 
M

MasterBates

Well-Known Member
The A-6 was one bad mutha....

We should not have totally passed its mission to the bug.

While modern precision munitions has reduced the need for massive tonnage of weapons on target, there is something to be said for having loiter time.

While the Rhino and Bug are supersonic, how often is that used in the AG mode? I don't know, and am unsure, but from an engineering standpoint, there are so many design issues/compromises with being supersonic, that a high subsonic aircraft will have better perforance in the carrying capacity arena.
 
Zilch

Zilch

This...is...Caketown!
MasterBates said:
The A-6 was one bad mutha....

We should not have totally passed its mission to the bug.

While modern precision munitions has reduced the need for massive tonnage of weapons on target, there is something to be said for having loiter time.

While the Rhino and Bug are supersonic, how often is that used in the AG mode? I don't know, and am unsure, but from an engineering standpoint, there are so many design issues/compromises with being supersonic, that a high subsonic aircraft will have better perforance in the carrying capacity arena.
Click to expand...

Yes...and I might be wrong, but would that massive tonnage of precision weapons be even better? This makes me wonder at the fact that something like the A-10 has been not only tolerated for this long, but had its life extended to something like 202X.
 
TurnandBurn55

TurnandBurn55

Drinking, flying, or looking busy!!
None
MasterBates said:
While the Rhino and Bug are supersonic, how often is that used in the AG mode? I don't know, and am unsure, but from an engineering standpoint, there are so many design issues/compromises with being supersonic, that a high subsonic aircraft will have better perforance in the carrying capacity arena.
Click to expand...

Your odds of getting the Rhino supersonic with any significant loadout are slim to none, anyways... and the JV Hornet's fuel load issues make supersonic flight another issue altogether...

The whole issue begins and ends with the realities of post-cold war defense spending. Sure, it would be nice to have dedicated strikers (A-12, anyone?) and dedicated fighters (Tomcat 21, anyone?) with occassional upgrades of the Charlie to make themselves feel good too... but when the DoD can only afford 10 divisions in the active Army, you're sure as hell not going to get everything you want in the air arm... nor should you (F-not-A-22, anyone?)
 
Zilch

Zilch

This...is...Caketown!
I want to point at the A-10, A-6, and so on again as probably more relevant types of aircraft for the types fighting we've seen lately (or at least what I can see being on the civilian side) than the F-22.

How many A-10 or A-6 pricetags fit inside an F-22's? More than five, I'd guess. I know it's not as simple as mathematics, but...I still would guess that a great CAS aircraft might make a bit more sense now than an air superiority one, as badass as the F-22 seems.

Then, I guess me talking about this is not very productive anyway. I don't claim to know really what I'm talking about...yet. Just kinda thinking out loud.
 
Gatordev

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Sure, it would be nice to have dedicated strikers (A-12, anyone?) and dedicated fighters (Tomcat 21, anyone?) with occassional upgrades of the Charlie to make themselves feel good too... but when the DoD can only afford 10 divisions in the active Army, you're sure as hell not going to get everything you want in the air arm... nor should you (F-not-A-22, anyone?)
Click to expand...

To add to that, it was unfortunate that one of the primary reasons why there was no money for the A-6F was BECAUSE of the A-12, since it sucked up so much funding over the years w/ no physical result. Stupid hindsight....
 
nittany03

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Mefesto said:
28 Mk 82's?!?!?!?! Holy CRAP!
Click to expand...
Reason number 15 why Intruders would have been first on my dreamsheet had they still been around . . .
 
SteveG75

SteveG75

Retired and starting that second career
None
The Intruder slogan at Hook '91 (yes, that Tailhook) was:

A-6 Intruders, we stay up longer, go deeper, and deliver bigger loads.

For some reason Pat Schroder didn't like it.

As, for the 28 Mk-82 load, I only saw that once for my CO's last flight. Normal loads were centerline drop, 12xMk82 and maybe a HARM on the inboard. During the Gulf War, a lot of strikes were done with 10xMk83 and the drop. Don't forget, we were the only asset at the time that had a laser. The F/A-18's only had laser spot trackers so the Intruders did all the designating.

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.
 
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