Cecil Field vs. Oceana...not done yet!

[SemperApollo]

We've got geniuses trying to make the claim that a helicopter doesn't count as an aircraft. Why? To keep a medivac helo out of a local airport (SMQ). Of course the same people who complain about a helicopter that saves lives taking off twice a day were the same ones who complained that a glider was making too much noise.
I **** you not, that was an actual complaint.

 

[gregsivers]

Well for what its worth, the measure got defeated here. The citizens voted it down in the election.

 

[Zilch]

We've got geniuses trying to make the claim that a helicopter doesn't count as an aircraft. Why? To keep a medivac helo out of a local airport (SMQ). Of course the same people who complain about a helicopter that saves lives taking off twice a day were the same ones who complained that a glider was making too much noise.
I **** you not, that was an actual complaint.

Are you fvcking kidding me? Were they talking about the "screee" when it landed, or what?

 

[Lawman]

We've got geniuses trying to make the claim that a helicopter doesn't count as an aircraft. Why? To keep a medivac helo out of a local airport (SMQ). Of course the same people who complain about a helicopter that saves lives taking off twice a day were the same ones who complained that a glider was making too much noise.
I **** you not, that was an actual complaint.

"Evelyn! Evelyn! Start packing your things darlin' I cant take it anymore. Those damn boats are making to much noise by george. Why I just dont get it I write and call all the time what the hell! Its driving me CRAz! Aww crap I just poo'd a little."

 

[jandar]

Those AICUZ issues that everyone here talks about:

Once Cecil was closed in the 90s, the AICUZ reverted from a Military AICUZ to a Commercial AICUZ. This drastically reduced the requirements for building houses.

All of the southside and beaches area in NE Florida have been built out (for the most part) leaving the Westside of Jacksonville and parts of Clay County left for major home developments. (While not as crowded or encroached as Oceana, the area around Cecil has grown since the navy left.)

One of those is called Oakleaf Plantation. 10,000 homes built near a COMMERCIAL airport/commerce center.

Over 15,000 new homes have been built since the navy left Cecil in what was the original AICUZ.

Then you have the issue of the newer AICUZ that the Super Hornet would create. This covered over 25,000 homes in Jacksonville alone, another couple thousand in Clay County.

This means all of those homes (none of which had AICUZ restrictions or noise dampening done) would then need to be redone and labeled as such. The conservative costs and associated lawsuits would be 2 billion dollars.

My home would be on the edge of the newer AICUZ and I live Clay County. I had no opportunity to vote on this. Had this passed, I would have had to redo my house and have a lower value with it. I would have gladly joined the class action lawsuits for my 50K of costs and additional lower house value. My house is 4 years old, was not built in an AICUZ, and does not have anything AICUZ related on my mortgage.

I was born and raised in Jacksonville, living under the flight path of Cecil Field and know what the noise level was. I also lived in the approach to Whitehouse OLF and routinely picked limbs up from the jets flying too low.

Cecil closed down once before, why give 2 billion dollars in land value to the Navy and close what the Commerce Center has already done and possibly could become in order to give it to the Navy when they could pull out again at any time?

The military needs to build bases in places that they could do their maneuvers without flying over a school with live ordinance.

 

[jandar]

THe whole area around Cecil when it was opened before was nothing more that bikini bars and check cashing places with trailer parks and apartments. Very few actual neighborhoods. Fast forward 7 years since Cecil Closed down and the area has grown by leaps and bounds. BTW, building a place in the middle of nowhere, enforcing AICUZ and dealing with encroachment issues is the way to go. Not reopen a base in the middle of a housing boom and making people move.

 

[jandar]

You do realize that when the DOD turns over an instillation, it's usually with the caveat that we can take it back again?

Yes I do. However, in this case, they would have to use eminent domain to take it back. This would also instantly spark reverse condemnation lawsuits.

The land was giving to 2 entities and now currently belongs to 8 different entities. It would not be easy under any circumstance except for case of total war.

 

[snake020]

It would not be easy under any circumstance except for case of total war.

It would only make sense for posturing against Cuba or Venezuela.

 

[xmid]

THe whole area around Cecil when it was opened before was nothing more that bikini bars and check cashing places with trailer parks and apartments. Very few actual neighborhoods. Fast forward 7 years since Cecil Closed down and the area has grown by leaps and bounds. BTW, building a place in the middle of nowhere, enforcing AICUZ and dealing with encroachment issues is the way to go. Not reopen a base in the middle of a housing boom and making people move.

Are you kidding me? 103rd street has turned in to a slum since the Navy left. Its all run down strip clubs and dealers hanging out at gas stations. I was incredibly disheartened when I went back to cecil a couple years after it closed. Its now a place a I wouldnt even feel safe going to.

You live in Middleburg and you would want to file a law suit against the military? Thats what, 30 miles from cecil? Give me a break. How many times has a Navy plane dropped "live ordanance" on civilians by accident?

You already have P-3's and S-3's in Jax so noise is already an issue. How much noise are the Rhinos gonna add? The S-3's make alot more noise with their "whoop, whoop, whoop" as they come in on approach. When the F-18's where there before I always thought they were the least noisy. I would know because I was one of those people that WANTED to see them, so I would go outside to look whenever I heard them. So you are proposing that instead of make noise in a place where they already do make alot of noise, they should build a base where there currently isnt alot of noise?

How about they build a base somewhere and then make a law that non-base personel can't live withing a 60 mile radius... not very practical huh? Lets face it you're a troll. This is your only post and you have an axe to grind.

 

[jandar]

No troll, just like to point out idiots when I see them. The base is 7.1 miles straight shot from my house to the center of the runways. Care to measure it yourself? Your knowledge of the area is totally wrong. There are 500K houses being built left and right off of Chaffee Rd. Oakleaf Plantation is 3-5 miles from the base and the houses range from 250K-1million. Maybe your ears are still ringing from firing your guns, but an S3 being as loud as a Super Hornet? OMG, thats laughable...... ban me if you want, but all I am pointing out is that the info on this board was totally wrong in regards to Cecil.

 

[Brett327]

No troll, just like to point out idiots when I see them. The base is 7.1 miles straight shot from my house to the center of the runways. Care to measure it yourself? Your knowledge of the area is totally wrong. There are 500K houses being built left and right off of Chaffee Rd. Oakleaf Plantation is 3-5 miles from the base and the houses range from 250K-1million. Maybe your ears are still ringing from firing your guns, but an S3 being as loud as a Super Hornet? OMG, thats laughable...... ban me if you want, but all I am pointing out is that the info on this board was totally wrong in regards to Cecil.

Well that's your opinion. You're not going to be banned for having a contrarian perspective, but I'm not sure what your objective is here. Resorting to name-calling isn't a very effective way of making your point. I don't know how realistic the chances are of the Navy returning to Cecil, but if it does decide that that is what it wants, it will happen regardless of what any of us think.

Brett

 

[xmid]

Well what kind of idiots build/buy a house that is right next to an active airport when they are worried about noise anyway? Cecil is still being used, just not by the Navy. If the current activities were ramped up you'd have the same noise problems. Its not like they tore up the runways and build office buildings over the entire base. You knowingly bought property close to an airport.

And like brett said its not like it matters what any of us think. If the Navy decides to go back they're going to, if not who cares.

 

[BigIron]

Well, it's over for now anyhow. The entities in FL will not have time to do all that is required by 12/31/06 (the BRAC deadline).

The whole thing was a CF from the get-go. Handled poorly from start to finish. This wasn't a DOD issue, but a BRAC commission issue. The Navy has stated they wanted to stay with Oceana for now. The BRAC commission forced the issue of Cecil and put it back on the closure/realignment list against the DOD's wishes.

I think folks have the reasonable expectation that once a DOD installation closes (often with much pain and resistance) that it is gone for good. If the caveat existed in BRAC law that the DOD could reclaim closed installation at anytime, I think that option would have been used in this particular situation. This issue wasn't about pilot safety and encroachment. It was politics and dollars.

I for one agree with most of the points in Jandars original post. Especially as a homeowner. I don't get the impression of trolling or anti-Navy here. If you want anti-Navy, call up the Citizens Concerned about Jet Noise around Virginia Beach. They'll give you an earful.

I live on the outskirts of Oceana class D. As I write, Hornets are overhead and a Coast Guard C-130 is bouncing. I chose to live here, I love it.

However, If I built a house in the Cecil area as it is now, and this BRAC deal would have gone down, I would be pissed too. It would have cost a huge amount of money for the citizens to make this happen.

I am no hippie. I am a Navy pilot and Virginia Beach resident who already pays a huge amount of property tax, much of which is budgeted to buyout property to control encroachment/development around Oceana.

Have a little empathy. Once these issues get into your pockets, your perspective changes a bit.