Ch-46 Protection

[Riper Snifle]

I was just curious about how well protected/armored the CH-46 is! I know it is unlikely to armor a helicopter enough against a surface to air missile or stinger, but how well protected are the troops and pilots from small arms fire?? I read somewhere that it wasn't, that seems weird for an aircraft that is heavily involved in troop transport, just wanted to ask a real CH-46 pilot if that is true or if the CH-46 is a flying tank for the troops flying in against small arms fire!! Thank you!

 

[phrogpilot73]

I was just curious about how well protected/armored the CH-46 is! I know it is unlikely to armor a helicopter enough against a surface to air missile or stinger, but how well protected are the troops and pilots from small arms fire?? I read somewhere that it wasn't, that seems weird for an aircraft that is heavily involved in troop transport, just wanted to ask a real CH-46 pilot if that is true or if the CH-46 is a flying tank for the troops flying in against small arms fire!! Thank you!

I wouldn't quite call it "a flying tank." However, there is armor in important areas, but not everywhere. The pilot's seats are armored, the flight control closet is armored, and the engines are armorerd. That's about it. The idea is to give it enough armor so that it can be flown into dangerous areas without the vital areas getting damaged.

 

[phrogdriver]

Even the attack helos that have "flying tank" reputations, such as the Apache and Russian Hind, really only protect vital areas, such as the pilot and flight controls. You just can't armor an entire aircraft. Take a look at armored ground vehicles--an LAV has a couple tons of steel armor on it, and it still only protects against 7.62 (i.e. rifle bullets) in its basic configuration. You put that kind of armor around a helo and it would never leave the ground. Your best protection in an aircraft is speed, stealth (whether provided by cover of darkness or by technology), suppressive fires, and countermeasure equipment. Armor in critical areas will then hopefully keep the lucky shot from being catastrophic.

 

[Riper Snifle]

Thank you for the replies Phrogpilot73 and Phrogdriver, that was just the information I was interested in hearing. The reputation of the Russian Hind as a flying tank always made me curious whether the U.S. did anything similar in helo's. As you were saying speed is the best protection for the troops, and helo's have plenty of that. So basically a troop in the back of a Ch-46 is vulnerable to a 7.62 mm round? Just curious if the metal that stands between him and the outside provides him any protection, or its more a matter of luck. thank you

 

[Fly Navy]

Remember, the Soviets designed a lot of stuff with the intention of getting hit. We designed a lot of stuff with the intention of not getting hit. This is not a universal law, but it can be seen in many applications.

 

[HueyCobra8151]

It may not be much, but troops inside would be wearing body armor as well

 

[phrogdriver]

The skin is aluminum. It might slow the round down slightly, especially if it came through the floorboards, too, but it won't stop a bullet. In some of the birds if you pull up the floorboards, you can see where they patched the skin with pieces of beercans, then painted, from back in Vietnam. Some more are getting some holes in them today, unfortunately, but I don't think beer can patches are as common.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Thank you for the replies Phrogpilot73 and Phrogdriver, that was just the information I was interested in hearing. The reputation of the Russian Hind as a flying tank always made me curious whether the U.S. did anything similar in helo's. As you were saying speed is the best protection for the troops, and helo's have plenty of that. So basically a troop in the back of a Ch-46 is vulnerable to a 7.62 mm round? Just curious if the metal that stands between him and the outside provides him any protection, or its more a matter of luck. thank you

Even though it's got a reputation as a flying tank, the Hind's horizontal stablizer is fabric covered.

 

[ChuckMK23]

The '46 was designed in the day before people thought of MANPADS and the like. I would guess that in the late 50's and early 60's the idea of a small arms threat in a mass combat assault would have been beyond the survivability requirements.

That said the guys at Vertol (Boeing) - did a decent job:

3 independant hydraulic systems, with plumbing that runs through different parts of the fuselage
2 motors seperated by a titanium wall.
2 electrical systems
A tough as nails semi monocoque fuselage. The gauge of aluminum of the ribs and stringers were designed to 300% of potential stress limits. It can also take multiple small arms hits without compromising structural integrity - and is easily repaired in the field.

Added to that, steel / ceramic armor in the pilot seats (crew chiew and pax are screwed), flight control area behind the cockpit area, and on th eoutside of the engine bays. The current rotor blades are ballistically tollerant..

Chaff/Flares
Infrared countermeasures
Self sealing fuel tanks

Still an enemy unloading a magazine from an AK-47 could wreak mechanical havoc on a '46 - or any helicopter. But it would probably get back on the ground safely.

and the greatest armor/self protection feature? A well trained crew!

 

[ChuckMK23]

Even though it's got a reputation as a flying tank, the Hind's horizontal stablizer is fabric covered.

The Hind can also barely hover!

 

[phrogpilot73]

Self sealing fuel tanks

I've got a friend that carries around slugs that they pulled from her fuel tanks after a particularly hairy mission. She likes to say "At least I know that the self sealing fuel tanks work"

 

[Riper Snifle]

Wow. Thanks guy's for all the information, it really shows the capabilities of the Ch-46.

 

[Fly Navy]

The skin is aluminum. It might slow the round down slightly

Maybe if they were shooting .22LR at you

 

[skidkid]

Even though it's got a reputation as a flying tank, the Hind's horizontal stablizer is fabric covered.

OK now Im calling bulllsh!t, there is no way you fly Phrogs with that bit of tactical knowledge (or any for that matter) in your head. Who are you really?
(no smiles but the sentiment is there)

 

[Pags]

Even though it's got a reputation as a flying tank, the Hind's horizontal stablizer is fabric covered.

Was talking about the same thing the other day with an IP. Rumor has it that the Russians would only pay for so much helo, and the funds ran out when they got to the tail boom.

Has anyone ever seen the picture of the 2 dudes on a jet ski and the one in the back is toating a Manpad?