Civilian Instructor Pilots at CNATRA

[Frumby]

Apparently, the Commandant spoke to the Commanders Course in Quantico that the Marine Corps is going to begin contracting civilian Instructor pilots to replace active duty in the Training Command. This is a reliable source but I have no physical confirmation but will post when I have something. I can only imagine that the Navy is doing the same thing since they own the Training Command. More to come but I thought this would be an interesting tidbit. Semper Fly, Frumby

 

[Brett327]

Apparently, the Commandant spoke to the Commanders Course in Quantico that the Marine Corps is going to begin contracting civilian Instructor pilots to replace active duty in the Training Command. This is a reliable source but I have no physical confirmation but will post when I have something. I can only imagine that the Navy is doing the same thing since they own the Training Command. More to come but I thought this would be an interesting tidbit. Semper Fly, Frumby

Nothing new for the NFO T-39 phase. Interesting.

Brett

 

[Frumby]

Very true but we are talking about ALL phases of the Training Command. I will talk to the MATSG CO tomorrow and pick his brain housing group. Frumby

 

[bunk22]

I wonder what the pay would be? Might be quite a few pilot types looking into that job. I'd probably do it if the pay was good. I don't have that much time left in the Navy.

 

[MasterBates]

First non military (as in never was in) Sim instructors.. Now this?

 

[zab1001]

More AD bodies for IAs.

 

[smittyrunr]

We heard the same thing (Navy side) a couple months ago- this is the first time I've heard anyone else mention it. Not sure when they are talking about implementing this, but it sounded like an immediate decrease in VT billets.

 

[MasterBates]

Here is the question I would like to ask:

If we make a lot of our shore billets contractors, what will it do to sea-shore rotation?

By outsourcing a lot of functions such as tugs, PRs in the TRACOM, Mech's in the TRACOM, that took away a lot of fine shore duty for our sailors. Now the same thing is going to bite us in the ass...

 

[Brett327]

I doubt we're talking about anything more than a partial replacement or ability to augment as necessary. I would be very surprised (shocked) if they had contract pilots teaching CQ phase or weps - T-34C BIs/RIs I can understand.

Brett

 

[Intruder Driver]

I doubt we're talking about anything more than a partial replacement or ability to augment as necessary. I would be very surprised (shocked) if they had contract pilots teaching CQ phase or weps - T-34C BIs/RIs I can understand.

Brett

It's history repeating itself. It's a way politicians can draw down the military without appearing to draw down the military. In the late '70's and early '80's, virtually all things related to sims involved military people: enlisted folks maintained the sims and O's taught them. First the enlisted rating was eliminated (replaced by civ contractors), then the O's were replaced by Burnside-Ott (anyone remember them?). As well, the T-39 pilot billets at VT-10 and VT-86 were transitioned from Naval Aviators to civilian pilots in the early '80's.

In the mid-to-late '80's, VT maintenance went from all Navy to virtually all civilian. Even when the CNATRA El Centro Weps Det was permanently established in January 1988, the maintenance crew that stood it up was all civilian with a few military types as advisors.

It's a trend that continues to reinvent itself.

 

[bunk22]

I doubt we're talking about anything more than a partial replacement or ability to augment as necessary. I would be very surprised (shocked) if they had contract pilots teaching CQ phase or weps - T-34C BIs/RIs I can understand.

Brett

Probably an obivious assumption but the aviators will be former military pilots so anything is possible. An IP will have to requal at the boat if out of currency.

 

[Intruder Driver]

Probably an obivious assumption but the aviators will be former military pilots so anything is possible. An IP will have to requal at the boat if out of currency.

During my VT instructor tour, CQ lead safes had to requal every time we went to the boat, no matter how much experience we had, since we were usually out of the NATOPS 'qual' window which was, I think, either 14 or 30 days for day traps.

 

[jamnww]

As a student I think that this is an absolutely horrible idea. The civilian instructors can certainly teach the flying, whether all of it or just RIs and the such is obviously beyond my pay grade. In my opinion a huge portion of flight school is learning from the experiences and stories that the instructors have to pass on as well as continued training and mentoring for the student's professional development. Certainly the civilian instructors (those prior military) can recount stories and experiences but by their very nature they will be FAR removed from the current condition of the fleet.

Just my .02 but the complete replacement is a horrible idea...

 

[bunk22]

During my VT instructor tour, CQ lead safes had to requal every time we went to the boat, no matter how much experience we had, since we were usually out of the NATOPS 'qual' window which was, I think, either 14 or 30 days for day traps.

Thus, a civilian IP would as well. Afterall, carrier pilots go on non-flying tours, sometimes out of the cockpit for 2+ years but they go back and requal, not a big deal.

 

[Brett327]

As a student I think that this is an absolutely horrible idea. The civilian instructors can certainly teach the flying, whether all of it or just RIs and the such is obviously beyond my pay grade. In my opinion a huge portion of flight school is learning from the experiences and stories that the instructors have to pass on as well as continued training and mentoring for the student's professional development. Certainly the civilian instructors (those prior military) can recount stories and experiences but by their very nature they will be FAR removed from the current condition of the fleet.

Just my .02 but the complete replacement is a horrible idea...

While I'm probably against the idea in general, I would argue that the experience of a prior military contract pilots (which they would almost certainly be) would be no more or less alien or applicable to the MK 1 Mod 0 SNA than the preponderance of VP and Helo primary instructors' would be to TACAIR hopefuls. The amount of "fleet" exposure flight students get is minimal at best and is probably only useful for purposes of making informed choices at selection time. I can not recall a single pointer or "there I was" story from my TRACOM experience that has served me or been applicable to my fleet aircraft. There are plenty of other reasons for objecting to contract pilots in flight school, but fleet gouge probably isn't a very good one.

Brett