Civilian Instructor Pilots at CNATRA

[Gatordev]

@Scoober:

Hit them on your critiques! And be specific, don't just put "Sim instructors were non-standard."

If CNATRA takes on civ flt instructors, and I have my doubts they will, you assume they'll be the same vintage as the sim instructors. My guess is the majority will be Iraq vets.

A valid point, but it is interesting how quickly info gets dated. When going through the RAG, just post-9/11, there was a sim instructor who flew in GW1. It was interesting to see how quickly he went from "knowledgeable tactical expert" to a young FRP to "things have changed, and you're info is out of date" to a H2P and HAC. Yes, it was 10 years later, but that 10 years happens fast, even in the TRACOM, and since certain tactics and operations change, I think the info would become somewhat dated relatively quickly, as Jamnww mentions.

Now, that doesn't mean I don't think Brett and ID don't have valid points. My opposition to the idea, however unlikely it might be, is mostly emotional. I just don't like it. Nothing really rational about it.

 

[ChuckMK23]

Don't forget that our Army Aviation brethren have been using contract CIV's in primary flight training for years, without a problem!

 

[wink]

I think it sucks for all sorts of reasons, rational, irrational, you name it. Give me one good reason to do it besides saving money. When money is driving the debate, you are probably missing something else of value in the debate.

 

[Frumby]

Ok, this is the info I got from an aviator who attend the same speech. Civilian IP's were discussed as "We are looking at" not "it's going to happen." Considering all the posts to this thread that should put some of you at ease. Keep in mind though, the USMC has never considered this route only the Navy. This may be coming but who knows. For now, go ahead and squelch this rumor. There are more important things to be concerned with these days. Semper Fly, Frumby

 

[smittyrunr]

I don't think a lack of fleet 'gouge' is really the case. What's important is having IPs in primary who just came from the fleet who liked their community and are enthusiastic about sharing what their mission is with SNAs. Or the ones who unfortunately don't like what they fly and share that experience too. While it was fine to hear the sim instructors talk about how great it was to fly the Huey in Vietnam or what the carrier ready room was like in the mid-70s, that really didn't have any bearing on what I thought I might want to select.

 

[bunk22]

It is kind of funny when you sit down to brief with a sim guy and he's wearing a jacket with an F-86 on the lapel........the aircraft he started out in.

 

[Intruder Driver]

It is kind of funny when you sit down to brief with a sim guy and he's wearing a jacket with an F-86 on the lapel........the aircraft he started out in.

A couple weeks ago I had the pleasure of speaking to about 60-70 USNA seniors who had chosen Air for service selection and were going to select class dates that evening. At the introduction part, the LT helo guy asked them "how many of you know what the A6 Intruder was?" My calculator brain told me these folks were born after I'd made four cruises and were only 10 or 11 when the A6 last flew just about the time only maybe 10 raised their hand, including one who said "isn't that the plane sitting over by the field house?" To which I answered "yes indeed, all the planes I flew are on pedestals now."

I think I'll go watch Space Cowboys for the 62nd time and dream of the return of the pure all weather attack mission.

 

[jfulginiti]

At least for the NFO side of the house, someone mentioned making the pilots GS employees........ therefore eliminating the contract issues.

 

[Cyclic]

I answered "yes indeed, all the planes I flew are on pedestals now."
I think I'll go watch Space Cowboys for the 62nd time and dream of the return of the pure all weather attack mission.

That's funny, I know a guy at the 60S Program named TURF that said exactly the same thing!! Once he starts talking about A-6's he doesn't stop...

 

[phrogdriver]

I think it sucks for all sorts of reasons, rational, irrational, you name it. Give me one good reason to do it besides saving money.

Personnel. At least in the USMC, we don't have enough pilots to fill all our fleet seats, plus B-billets, and IAs. It will only get worse as we move assets from the reserves to the active-duty side.

 

[eddie]

only maybe 10 raised their hand

That's shocking.