CJCS responds to Rep. Gaetz

[grodonfreeman]

.....was it fair for congress, senators and the sitting president to say that it was not a fair election without much proof?

Just because you don't like the result doesn't mean the process failed or that there was a lack of transparency. Nobody owes sorelosers anything as there was/is

Ya, the sorelosers hammered Trump for years over Russian collusion -without much proof & absolutely no evidence of irregularities in the results.

Anyway, the first forensic examination is finishing up in Arizona. They're examining the ballots, the machines & the counts. And, they're doing it in a way that can stand up in court. If the election was clean, Trump is finished. If the election was dirty, Biden is illegitimate.

 

[RandomGoat1248]

Ya, the sorelosers hammered Trump for years over Russian collusion -without much proof & absolutely no evidence of irregularities in the results.

How many dems voted to not certify the 2016 results? When did Clinton concede the election? How many Dems stormed the capital in January 2017 to overturn the results?

Anyway, the first forensic examination is finishing up in Arizona. They're examining the ballots, the machines & the counts. And, they're doing it in a way that can stand up in court. If the election was clean, Trump is finished. If the election was dirty, Biden is illegitimate.

Lol. Even Republicans in Arizona see the “audit” as a bunch of bullshit.

Guess what, the election results were already audited as part of the normal certification process. Go cry about losing somewhere else.

 

[grodonfreeman]

It doesn't matter in the tiniest bit whether it was true or not at the time. All that matters is that voters in this country have faith in the outcome of the election and get the necessary reassurance such that democracy, and our republic, can function as intended.

Justice Clarence Thomas in his dissenting opinion on SCOTUS refusal to hear Trump's case:
"One wonders what this Court waits for. We failed to settle this dispute before the election, and thus provide clear rules. Now we again fail to provide clear rules for future elections.
The decision to leave election law hidden beneath a shroud of doubt is baffling. By doing nothing, we invite further confusion and erosion of voter confidence.
Our fellow citizens deserve better and expect more of us. I respectfully dissent."

 

[Spekkio]

I grew up in a suburb of Detroit. To this day Detroit and it’s suburbs are the most segregated neighborhoods in America. Sure it is de facto and not de jure but the reasons it continues to be like this is because it was at one time de jure. This is true in a lot of places.

It's true in a lot of places because the sub-cultures desire to live among family members and people who are culturally similar to them, not because white people are oppressing minorities to live in certain areas.

I taught in the Deep South. Again, only a fool can look me in the eyes and say their aren’t deep historical reasons that my students, 99% of whom were black, had nothing and just down the street the private high school that was 99% white cost $20,000 a year. The black kids that got into that school played football and went on to play at SEC schools. You don’t see anything wrong with this picture?

We can agree on the problem without agreeing on the root causes and solutions presented by CRT, i.e. that institutionally racist policies in the 21st century are creating a metaphorical glass ceiling that should be corrected through public policy.

 

[grodonfreeman]

How many dems voted to not certify the 2016 results?

After the 2000, 2004 and 2016 elections, they objected to counting electoral totals.

Opinion | Democrats Have Been Shameless About Your Presidential Vote Too (Published 2021)

After the 2000, 2004 and 2016 elections, they objected to counting electoral totals.

www.nytimes.com

 

[jtmedli]

Not disputing that fact but was it fair for congress, senators and the sitting president to say that it was not a fair election without much proof?

I never said it was or wasn't. The end result was a breakdown in faith in the system of electing our representation that resulted in a riot at the Capitol that was entirely preventable and that's really all that matters. Instead we're writing it off as some bullshit white supremacy/white rage thing and the current administration is using it as an excuse to perpetrate a thinly veiled war on "domestic terrorism" which is pretty obviously the weaponization of intelligence agencies and politicing of the military.

Since I already pulled myself into this thread, here goes nothing.

The transparency you demand already happened. The recounts that were required occurred and every state's election were certified per the proper legal process.

Just because you don't like the result doesn't mean the process failed or that there was a lack of transparency. Nobody owes sorelosers anything as there was/is absolutely no evidence of irregularities in the results.

Except our election processes are an absolute joke with little more than signature matching, which is being done by people who were taking your order at McDonald's last week, in most places as the "verification" process. Also, both sides, regardless of outcome, deserve to be given every chance to verify/confirm the results in order to give constituencies faith that their Republican leaders were elected in accordance with the law and in good faith. It's really a pretty simple concept.

 

[jtmedli]

We can agree on the problem without agreeing on the root causes and solutions presented by CRT, i.e. that institutionally racist policies in the 21st century are creating a metaphorical glass ceiling that should be corrected through public policy.

Republicans tried that. They presented the idea of school vouchers / school choice which was rejected but Democrats because that would mean government run schools would have to actually compete with private and charter schools. Furthermore, African Americans had the lowest unemployment rate in recorded history under Trump but what did the Black Caucus do when Trump brought it up in the state of the union? Sat there with frowns on their faces and refused to clap a single clap.

Maybe the real problem here isn't that "racism" is holding people back or historical wrongs from 150 years ago but rather that holding people back is the desired effect of the polticians that represent these people because it's giving them a reliable voter base with a reliable, almost completely unquantifiable, scapegoat.

 

[Spekkio]

I never said it was or wasn't. The end result was a breakdown in faith in the system of electing our representation that resulted in a riot at the Capitol that was entirely preventable and that's really all that matters.

I think that it's significant that the riots were mostly incited by a sitting President's use of Twitter to cast doubt on the legitimacy of the elections, and that several key members of his party followed suit because preventing a Biden win was more important than reinforcing the rule of law.

Al Gore had a significantly better case to drag out the results of the 2000 election, but he conceded because moving on was best for the country (Note: this is not an endorsement or indictment of one political party over another, but individual leadership).

What do you think could have been done differently to prevent these events from happening?

 

[grodonfreeman]

What do you think could have been done differently to prevent these events from happening?

The SCOTUS should have heard Trump's case.

 

[Spekkio]

The SCOTUS should have heard Trump's case.

Perhaps you misunderstand what that means...

Trump's case was heard in several lower courts, and was found to be baseless. By deciding not to entertain the case, SCOTUS is agreeing with the lower courts.

 

[MGoBrew11]

It's true in a lot of places because the sub-cultures desire to live among family members and people who are culturally similar to them, not because white people are oppressing minorities to live in certain areas.


We can agree on the problem without agreeing on the root causes and solutions presented by CRT, i.e. that institutionally racist policies in the 21st century are creating a metaphorical glass ceiling that should be corrected through public policy.

I don’t think white people are actively oppressing people to live in certain areas. Never said that. But you really think the only reason people (white or black) live in the hood is because their family is from there? Nonsense, man. It’s because the hood traps people.

As I stated before, I stand pretty staunchly opposed to CRT. I still acknowledge that the de facto segregation of today is rooted in formerly de jure segregation, and that we can still consider that systemic racism to some degree.

 

[jtmedli]

I think that it's significant that the riots were mostly incited by a sitting President's use of Twitter to cast doubt on the legitimacy of the elections, and that several key members of his party followed suit because preventing a Biden win was more important than reinforcing the rule of law.

Al Gore had a significantly better case to drag out the results of the 2000 election, but he conceded because moving on was best for the country (Note: this is not an endorsement or indictment of one political party over another, but individual leadership).

What do you think could have been done differently to prevent these events from happening?

To my knowledge, the members of the republican party that spoke out were mostly just advocating for recounts. Ted Cruz caught a LOT of heat in the media but his speech on the floor amounted to "let's recount everything and re-establish people's faith in the system." He wasn't casting any doubt that I know of but rather trying to cast reassurance.

For one, Democrats filing lawsuits to prevent audits and recounts was immature and caused much of the skepticism. The addage of "what have you got to hide" comes to mind. Furthermore, I think videos of people passing USB sticks to each other and pulling boxes out from under sheets should've been investigated because those were going around like wildfire online. Rhetoric from both sides is what caused it to happen but that should be unsurprising given the kind of hyperbolic rhetoric we saw for the entire Trump presidency about every single issue from "he's a Russian agent" bullshit to "peaceful protests."

Off topic, but if anything we've got way more cause to believe in Biden and his son being corrupt Russian and Chinese agents than we ever saw of Trump.

 

[DanMa1156]

Anyway, the first forensic examination is finishing up in Arizona. They're examining the ballots, the machines & the counts. And, they're doing it in a way that can stand up in court. If the election was clean, Trump is finished. If the election was dirty, Biden is illegitimate.

Good one. You had me there for a second.

 

[MGoBrew11]

@Spekkio its like a relay race...

Due to legal racism decades ago, injustices continue. It’s still systemic.

Imagine being tripped at the starting line by your opponent and then in the middle of the race people are telling you you’re losing because you’re just not trying hard enough.

 

[Spekkio]

Imagine being tripped at the starting line by your opponent and then in the middle of the race people are telling you you’re losing because you’re just not trying hard enough.

We can extrapolate this to almost everyone in society.

My parents weren't billionaires who could buy a spot in Harvard through an alumni donation. I suppose I was tripped at the starting line at some point and should therefore give up on life.