CMV-22B Osprey Rollout

[picklesuit]

Since the C-2 is being phased out, will this increase or decrease carrier operations tempo out in the water?

I doubt it will have a significant effect. The majority of logistics is carried out via UNREP and VERTREP thanks to our MSC brethren (and sisteren?) and helo bubbas.

C-2’s bring a lot of great stuff, especially time sensitive repair parts and mail. They also spend a lot of time ferrying DV’s around. While this (DV ferrying) is definitely a cog in the diplomatic and informational warfare spheres, it isn’t mission limiting if it were to be throttled back.

If we were to go from, say, 14 COD arrivals per week to 10 or 8/week, you would see a greater scrutiny on the prioritization of parts/people aboard, but the trickle down effect would be that personnel transfers and mail would just have to wait while CASREPS are taken care of.

With port calls nearly every month while away there is always time to catch up on all of that while alongside the pier.

I’d think if there were any other significant impact on any temporary interruption to regular COD service it would be an increase in LOG runs for the helo bubbas.

Great question though...

Pickle

 

[kmac]

Ok, so answering no one in particular, here are some observations...
1a). CMV-22 based afloat. It's a terrible idea, mostly due to the space constraints for the maintenance personnel and hangar configurations. A lot of you guys that assume maintenance is (relatively) easy on the ship probably have assigned maintenance shops and proper IMRL. That just doesn't exist for a C-2 det and a V-22 det is going to be about 40% bigger with even more IMRL. Your ready for tasking rate will plummet if you try to do any kind of routine maintenance on the ship. And since there is no such thing as a "spare" aircraft when it comes to doing daily logistics, a det won't meet its requirements.
1b) Unless you are keeping the engines running while loading cargo, it makes sense to have maintenance capability for where you shut down. Too many things go wrong when you shut down and try to start up again. Are you guys familiar with the COD paperclip technique? Some E-2 crews are sketched out by it.

2). Doing stuff differently because it's a V-22. Yeah, everyone gets that. We already examined doing things differently... some good (containerized cargo) and some bad (less cargo / pax per trip). I hear a lot of you guys talking about the added capabilities of being able to land at night without the costly CQ requirements. I agree, that's good. But when you realize that you HAVE to do that because you often need to get 3 hits a day then it's somewhat of a wash. I've said it before, but it takes 4 V-22s to do the same amount of logistics as 2 C-2s. We proved that we can do 3 aircraft dets so long as we recognize that we can't take as much stuff out as we do now. Let that sink in for a moment for those that think they'll have the time/space/funding to reasonably do any other mission.

3) Different CONOPS. Delivering cargo to a different ship on the same mission as going to the CVN will be an interesting challenge. The containerized cargo has to be placed inside the aircraft relative to when it's getting dropped off... it also means that you lose out on capability if a cargo container going to an AOE (for example) isn't full while the rest of what you're carrying is going to the CVN. This is about optimizing efficiency... and it will be fun for future planners.

 

[ChuckMK23]

@kmac how credible is the proposed AAR capability? I mean really.

Is the COD community progressive enough to leverage it in a way that the fleet would benefit? Would CO’s invest to keep you guys current and proficient ?

 

[Brett327]

current and proficient

It's not rocket science. Pointy nosed guys do it all the time with minimal proficiency.

 

[SynixMan]

@kmac , I pick up what your putting down, but I think you're wildly overstating the difficulty of getting work done on the CVN. Most of the maintenance shops are just rooms on the boat that get horse traded between the boat dudes and the Air Wing. Every other sea going T/M/S manages to do maintenance afloat, including phase maintenance, with a full IMRL load. I'd argue deck space is the biggest argument against it.

Also lol at things potentially going pear shaped on your scheduled deck hits across the CSG. Enjoy trying to get USS Single Spot raised on Fleet Tac to get the wind into limits. Maybe you do need need some helo bubbas after all! You about to learn what it's like to be the fat kid.

 

[Jim123]

Enjoy trying to get USS Single Spot raised on Fleet Tac

Or land/launch, or 156.8 to get them to come up on Fleet Tac, or L/L, or anything...

 

[SynixMan]

Or land/launch, or 156.8 to get them to come up on Fleet Tac, or L/L, or anything...

Maritime 16 always gets their attention!

 

[sickboy]

Maritime 16 always gets their attention!

It's the only way!

 

[Jim123]

Maritime 16 always gets their attention!

Almost always, except the time we couldn't raise a certain FFG on any of those freqs, even hovering off their port bridge wing. All we wanted to tell them is they needed to get their shit together since we were running out of daylight. We were going to pick up the tech rep--whom we'd brought to them earlier that day--but we also had to get the DESRON Commodore back to his ship all in the same day. We ran out of time and flew away. When we were about 50 miles away the fig finally started calling us... too late, idiots. We got the CDRE back where he needed to be with a few minutes to spare.

I have no idea why they wouldn't answer. The Captain even came out on that bridge wing and gave us a funny look, but nary a peep on the radio.

I hope that tech rep packed a toothbrush and extra skivvies.

 

[mad dog]

...The Captain even came out on that bridge wing and gave us a funny look, but nary a peep on the radio.

Yeppers...If I had a nickel for every funny look from various ship Captains...I'd be driving a Lambo.

 

[nittany03]

Too many things go wrong when you shut down and try to start up again. Are you guys familiar with the COD paperclip technique? Some E-2 crews are sketched out by it.

Do tell . . .

 

[Gatordev]

Almost always, except the time we couldn't raise a certain FFG on any of those freqs, even hovering off their port bridge wing. All we wanted to tell them is they needed to get their shit together since we were running out of daylight. We were going to pick up the tech rep--whom we'd brought to them earlier that day--but we also had to get the DESRON Commodore back to his ship all in the same day. We ran out of time and flew away. When we were about 50 miles away the fig finally started calling us... too late, idiots. We got the CDRE back where he needed to be with a few minutes to spare.

I have no idea why they wouldn't answer. The Captain even came out on that bridge wing and gave us a funny look, but nary a peep on the radio.

I hope that tech rep packed a toothbrush and extra skivvies.

Obviously not enough pencil flares were expended. I mean, the Airboss says to do it. Who are you to defy him?

 

[Pags]

Obviously not enough pencil flares were expended. I mean, the Airboss says to do it. Who are you to defy him?

To heck with seaward, bounce that flare off of the bridge wing. Odds are that the CIWS is down.

 

[kmac]

@kmac how credible is the proposed AAR capability? I mean really.
Is the COD community progressive enough to leverage it in a way that the fleet would benefit? Would CO’s invest to keep you guys current and proficient ?

It’s not credible yet, but it’s probably the first one that will be credible. You can’t do AAR and COD at the same time, so it will have to be a decision if the net juice is worth the squeeze. I think the unmanned option is still more likely.

@kmac , I pick up what your putting down, but I think you're wildly overstating the difficulty of getting work done on the CVN. Most of the maintenance shops are just rooms on the boat that get horse traded between the boat dudes and the Air Wing. Every other sea going T/M/S manages to do maintenance afloat, including phase maintenance, with a full IMRL load. I'd argue deck space is the biggest argument against it.

Also lol at things potentially going pear shaped on your scheduled deck hits across the CSG. Enjoy trying to get USS Single Spot raised on Fleet Tac to get the wind into limits. Maybe you do need need some helo bubbas after all! You about to learn what it's like to be the fat kid.

The V-22 folds up as much as a C-2, so deck space really isn’t the biggest factor though it is an important one. While you think that I’m overstating maintenance difficulties, read pretty much any post-cruise report from the last 10 years. But hey, I’m glad that the COD guys have another advocate to help fight for more work space on the ship! Welcome to the good fight! Can we have some helo spaces? By the way... V-22 phase maintenance is just ugly. I’m glad that Bell Boeing and the Marines have made serious headway into improving that.

As for VOD stuff... we agree that helo knowledge is good to have within the community. We also wished that the Marines would let us take some of their guys.

Do tell . . .

So the starter control valve is electronically held open. Sometimes the ground start relay would either prematurely deenergize or the centrifugal switch would fail to closed and we wouldn’t be able to start the engine. In order to not get stuck on the boat, we would have a maintainer climb on a ladder a couple of feet from the prop, insert a paper clip with a string tied to it into so that the starter control valve would stay open. Upon start, when we got to 60% we’d give the cut signal and the maintainer would pull on the string and the valve would close. That was our technique... many Air Bosses have watched in sheer disbelief.

 

[Pags]

So the starter control valve is electronically held open. Sometimes the ground start relay would either prematurely deenergize or the centrifugal switch would fail to closed and we wouldn’t be able to start the engine. In order to not get stuck on the boat, we would have a maintainer climb on a ladder a couple of feet from the prop, insert a paper clip with a string tied to it into so that the starter control valve would stay open. Upon start, when we got to 60% we’d give the cut signal and the maintainer would pull on the string and the valve would close. That was.

Sounds like these guys:


https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/446a9744-c121-477c-97ab-55e0945dd74d