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P-3 guys have a weird attitude towards VFR flight; ie its far to dangerous to attempt. A buddy of mine suggested to his crew one day that because it was a nice day that they should head from Pax to Jax VFR. All the "good CRM" came out and told him he was touched in the head and that IFR was the way the community rolled and so they filed and enjoyed the country from some retardedly high altitude as opposed to cruising the beaches.Pfft, you can argue anything with *facts*.
I had the same attitude for the longest time. Actually, I think I still have it. That little blurb in 3710 that says something to the effect of 'IFR to the maximum extent practicable' makes me think that if something bad happens after I cancel, I'm going to get my dick stomped for raging around VFR.
Dear God, why are you checking on AW whilst in a freakin' bar in freakin' Amsterdam???? C'mon, MB-below in headwork.Words, words, words, then: I am in a bar in Amsterdam on my phone
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You can't find anyone, err, anything better to do in Amsterdam? You've lost your touch...Bar in Airport. Not a lot else to do waiting for a flight.
pickle, hate to say it - but you're still full of shit. According to the news articles linked in this thread - they hit the powerlines at 250 feet AGL. I also think you missed the most important point of what was posted in my initial response to you. Yes, powerlines are marked on sectionals. No, there is no altitude associated with them. I have seen powerlines that were marked on sectionals be as low as 15-20' AGL, and as high as 600' AGL. Oh, and our "fancy" JOGAIRS and 1:50,000 aren't fancy at all. They have NO altitude associated with ANYTHING. We take altitudes for towers (which ARE published on sectionals, just not altitudes for wires) and update them. They just provide more information. Like the fact there are 5 sets of powerlines when the sectional says there's one. Flying 500' and below is not unusual, nor is it frowned upon by all ATC agencies - it is actually ENCOURAGED by most of them. Why? Because it keeps us the hell out of their way. Hell, most of the rules in the FARs start off with "with the exception of helicopters."Pags, Phrog,
I have no problem flying VFR. I encourage it, and do it often (easiest way from W237 to KNUW is VFR through the Straits) I am not trying to argue against VFR flight. I am arguing that this guy is indeed negligent, as he missed something on a VFR Sectional (which probably would have been even better explained on your fancy JOGAIR or any "better" charts) that even a dumbass, IFR crippled, fixed wing high altitude flyer can see...an electrical line running to an island that he then ran into. But fuck it, he's probably good for an EP and a trip to the FRS...right?
Pickle