Collings Foundation B-17 down in Connecticut

[ea6bflyr]

I could see if the engines or wings were falling off the aircraft, then the politicians had some grounds to pressure NTSB, but as the preliminary investigation revealed that it's not a pattern of issues.

"As it touched down, the airplane “impacted the instrument landing system stanchions, veered to the right, over a grassy area, over the taxiway and impacted the de-icing facility,"[NTSB member Jennifer Homendy].

Like wink said, the Senator's comments make the public believe he is in charge and is doing something. To me it appears that another politician seeking re-election is using this tragedy by being a bandwagon champion.

 

[Hozer]

 

[Griz882]

Some will likely grab on to the fact that the pilot was 75 years old and the co-pilot 71.

 

[Flash]

The problem with the Senator's comment is that it is meaningless at best. He is pandering to scaredy cats, candy asses and nannies. The regulations regarding maintenance of vintage aircraft, specifly experimental and restricted registered warbirds, is detailed. Enforcement and oversight must be appropiate because we don't have these types of planes falling out of the sky with regularity. Organizations like CAF, Collings, AAHF, and Planes of Fame are precisely the ones you don't have to worry about. His comment is vapid and unhelpful and will lead to an assumption these types of flying activities are unnecessarily unsafe.

Again, other than the redundant call for an NTSB investigation I don't see a thing wrong with the Senator's statement. Local officials at a news conference today said almost the same thing as the Senator, and all the news I've seen has not been sensational but has correctly noted that the aircraft was vintage, and one I saw tonight noted how well-experienced the pilot was without noting his age (I had to look it up).

Since it was a very unique historical aircraft it will get notable attention of politicians and the press, especially with passenger fatalities, but I've seen nothing in the coverage so far that is over the top or sensationalistic. I know people here are involved in the warbird community but some of you seem a bit overly sensitive over what has been relatively staid coverage and statements, by the very folks who you would expect to make statements on what happened in their state/locality.

 

[xmid]

My biggest fear is that most of these WWII airplanes are Experimental or Restricted category aircraft and are only able to give rides because they have a waiver from the FAA to do so under some "Historically Significant" basis. The FAA has already clamped down on the issuance of new waivers for quite some time. That's why you don't see groups like the Texas Flying Legends offering rides in their wide array of WWII aircraft. It would be very easy to revoke all waivers. Many organizations like the CAF and the AAHF rely on ride income to be able to keep and maintain these aircraft.

Tragically, it looks like there are at least five dead passengers and several more injured. The fallout from that could have a very significant impact on getting to see and experience these flying pieces of history in the future.

 

[HuggyU2]

The problem with the Senator's comment is that it is meaningless at best. He is pandering to scaredy cats, candy asses and nannies. The regulations regarding maintenance of vintage aircraft, specifly experimental and restricted registered warbirds, is detailed. Enforcement and oversight must be appropiate because we don't have these types of planes falling out of the sky with regularity. Organizations like CAF, Collings, AAHF, and Planes of Fame are precisely the ones you don't have to worry about. His comment is vapid and unhelpful and will lead to an assumption these types of flying activities are unnecessarily unsafe.

Fuckin' SHACK.

 

[Griz882]

Again, other than the redundant call for an NTSB investigation I don't see a thing wrong with the Senator's statement. Local officials at a news conference today said almost the same thing as the Senator, and all the news I've seen has not been sensational but has correctly noted that the aircraft was vintage, and one I saw tonight noted how well-experienced the pilot was without noting his age (I had to look it up).

Since it was a very unique historical aircraft it will get notable attention of politicians and the press, especially with passenger fatalities, but I've seen nothing in the coverage so far that is over the top or sensationalistic. I know people here are involved in the warbird community but some of you seem a bit overly sensitive over what has been relatively staid coverage and statements, by the very folks who you would expect to make statements on what happened in their state/locality.

Since I am person that shifted the conversation, unintentionally, let me say that I found absolutely nothing wrong with what the senator said. I think the point that most people here are looking at is a worry that such comments, especially from a person of some note, have broad consequences. As far as I know, not a single senator came out and said "jet planes must be properly maintained & flown" when Dale Earnhardt's Cessna Citation melted after a hard landing. @Flash is correct that most of the coverage over this matter is fairly standard, made interesting only because it was a WWII aircraft and that the senator's comment is about as neutral as one can get, but I also think that @xmid is spot on. Perhaps I should have posted this article, please read the senator's more sensational, but justifiable, comments at the end.

Fiery B-17 plane crash has people asking: Are vintage bomber rides dangerous?

The World War II-era B-17 bomber that crashed Wednesday was never designed to carry passengers. Yet seven died. Should historic flights end?

www.usatoday.com

 

[wink]

@xmid is correct. Without any public comment, probable cause from this mishap, or legislative action, the FAA could revoke waivers over night. The flights are at the heart of the mission and the revenues critical to the survival of many of these organizations.

The senator's comments seem fine with some only becasue they have become de rigueur for politicians and government officials. The danger in his comments are already bearing fruit, as seen in the posted USA Today article.

 

[Recovering LSO]

Counterpoint: the senator’s comments seem troublesome with some only because he’s the (that) senator.

The NTSB will investigate - this is known. If safety issues are found they should be addressed - this is known. Again, nothing earth shattering here.

 

[wink]

Counterpoint: the senator’s comments seem troublesome with some only because he’s the (that) senator.

The NTSB will investigate - this is known. If safety issues are found they should be addressed - this is known. Again, nothing earth shattering here.

I don't quite know what you mean by "that" guy. Guess I must not be part of the "some". But if you mean some sort of political affiliation difference, I for one am not consumed by anything political least of all that which animates so many people of late, even on AW. I don't see people through that lens before all others. Which is why I can still respect people that differ with me politically and give their opinions serious fair consideration. That includes you . Let's just leave assumptions of political motivates out of this thread. It is a huge stretch.

As to the second sentence in your post regarding the NTSB investigation and report, if only all regulation and policy were grounded in the facts of a scientific and engineering analysis by professional investigators. But that is not so, History proves so. Everything but facts and science has driven some decisions in the past. And that is what is set in motion by comments like the senators, and others following suit. Next come the opeds in papers and online, then the parties with an interest in change (not the facts) get a megaphone, then hearings, followed by unnecessary and ill-informed policy. You may think nothing here is earth shattering. But it is only vigilance and promotion of facts that will keep it so. Once the train is out of the station, it is too late to stop it. I see the threat now. Can't wait until the train has a head of steam in the boiler.

 

[nittany03]

I don't quite know what you mean by "that" guy.

Psst . . . (he thinks you only care because Blumenthal’s a Democrat).

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Psst . . . (he thinks you only care because Blumenthal’s a Democrat).

No no, RLSO is a conservative. He told us.

 

[wink]

The Collings Foundation has lost their Living History Flight Exemption due to the crash of Nine O Nine. Very sad. It is the right thing to do all the same. No proper crew station for the crew chief, not following their own SMS, maintenance short falls that resulted in all plugs being fouled and mags intermittent, training documentations issues. I can hardly imagine what would happen to a military squadron if they had been gigged that badly following a Class A.

Good news is, in the same week Collings lost their exemption to carry pax the Army Aviation Heritage Foundation was re-approved not for one, but two years ?. I have always thought that we did a very fine job, especially the Southwest Chapter, of which I am very familiar. When I was leading the restoration of a static display only UH-1B gunship I frequently advised or approved short cuts to speed things along knowing it was never going to fly, and my suggestions did not compromise the museum value of the aircraft. Over and over the military trained restoration crew would politely ignore me and follow the Army procedures to the letter. And they finished on time. Their attitude was similar to 'train like you fight". They only knew one way to get the job done and that was as trained. That may have been 40-50 years ago, but they weren't going to get into any bad habits one week on a museum Huey only to work the next week a flying Cobra.

I hope the CAF fairs as well as the AAHF next time they come up. We are all under a microscope.

 

[nittany03]

The Collings Foundation has lost their Living History Flight Exemption due to the crash of Nine O Nine. Very sad. It is the right thing to do all the same. No proper crew station for the crew chief, not following their own SMS, maintenance short falls that resulted in all plugs being fouled and mags intermittent, training documentations issues . . .

We are all under a microscope.

 

[Jim123]

The accident report that came out last week is pretty damning. Best way I can describe the situation is that it seems like a lot of guys, who love warbirds and want to share them, just lost their way and cut too many corners.