Consequences for Veterans and/or retirees in the 2021 DC Riots

[Ghost SWO]

You're allowed to disagree but...do you want to talk about the last two?

Frankly I don't think it matters one way or another how it started.

Lol, true. It really doesn't matter it's just semantics.

The last two article titles?

NBC: I think he should have used the time in his address to say he lost "fair and square", and the electoral collage was going to prove that in the next several hours. That would have maybe calmed the crowd down and hopefully they would begin to disperse.

New York Post: I don't think he won the election even though I think there was significant fraud, and even if he did win he needed to verify those claims well before January 6th! Trying to change anything on that day was pointless.

 

[taxi1]

The dog isn't yours, it just shows up one day at the dog park and acts like you're its owner and all the other dog owners agree that it's yours, and you tell the dog to be strong and fight for the right to not be picked on at the park. The dog gets bold and attacks thinking it is already being picked on... Do you bear any blame?

If it is your responsibility to keep the peace in the dog park and you just watch...yes.

 

[Ghost SWO]

If it is your responsibility to keep the peace in the dog park and you just watch...yes.

Yeah I'm not happy with the untimely response and small footprint of law enforcement. I would imagine they didn't expect that kind of response. Pro-Trumpers are supposed to "back the blue"... I think even if he did tell them to knock it off it would be too late, some people just won't listen when they're that emotionally tied to an irrational ideology. He needed to say something during his speech to calm them down before they moved. Maybe that could have served as a litmus test for potential future violence, and would have given law enforcement some valuable time to reinforce their numbers at the capitol.

 

[Sam I am]

Interesting poll on Yahoo...I hesitate to use Yahoo as a credible source but they're pulling from ABC News and the Washington Post...so: legit. Here's a link to the pdf file but I'll try and get the graphics in here.

https://www.langerresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/1219a1TrumpsClosingCrisis-.pdf

 

[Pags]

Lol, true. It really doesn't matter it's just semantics.

The last two article titles?

NBC: I think he should have used the time in his address to say he lost "fair and square", and the electoral collage was going to prove that in the next several hours. That would have maybe calmed the crowd down and hopefully they would begin to disperse.

New York Post: I don't think he won the election even though I think there was significant fraud, and even if he did win he needed to verify those claims well before January 6th! Trying to change anything on that day was pointless.

As to fraud: the states trump is concerned about where until recently dependable red states. That means that they had been proactively gerrymandered by their republican governments, election laws were overseen by republicans, and then when the purported fraud was brought up before republican judges the cases were all tossed out because there was no actual evidence. If that setup that I just articulated didn't agree with the fraud and you still think there actually was widespread fraud to the extent that would have changed the results I don't know what to tell you. Oh, also many of the down ballot races still resulted in Republican picks so it's not like the Republican vote was denied at the polls.

 

[Randy Daytona]

When you live near DC you get a pretty good "eye" for estimating crowd size at a protest. I highly doubt there were 15,000 people there total (maybe, maybe 10,000 but I'd say even lower than that) and we know that no where close to that number went inside the building. Keep in mind that the press will cover sensational stuff like this for the news cycle, but the proceedings are more "lawyer like" and the media will skip the dull parts like actual facts. Such is the nature of news.

Now, if I were to roll out my crystal ball and attempt a prediction, I'd say that five republican senators will roll with "guilty" and the rest will have lawyerly excuses using elements of law to justify their votes. I am almost certain the future will prove me wrong (I also predict the Browns and Buccaneers in the SB!).

The Trump stuff isn't really the good stuff. The slow-burn excitement will come with filling the power vacuum on both sides of party game. It is easy (and accurate) to say that Trump holds remarkable sway over the rank-and-file voters and that Obama holds the same over his party. Both, however, are never getting back in the POTUS chair. I mentioned earlier that I don't think the two party system will last much longer in the US. It is a mistake to assume that the republicans are in more disarray than the democrats...they are simply stuck behind a bad news cycle. Look at it this way...currently both parties are being "directed" (lead is too powerful a word) by four people (Pelosi, McCarthy, Schumer and McConnell) that share a combined age of nearly 71 years (that "kid" McCarthy at 55 is keeping it "low"). The average age of the democratic caucus is 72 years while the average age of the republican caucus is 48! Biden? His age alone ensures he is a one term guy.

Change is coming sooner rather than later and the process, while slow, will be fascinating.

I’ve said much the same over the last few years - that both parties were in the middle of civil wars. I would not be surprised if President-Elect Biden makes a play for the disaffected business interest / voters in the Republican party and tries to govern in a European style center- left (senior) / center- right (junior) coalition. This allows an increase in financial strength, decimates the current Republican party and allows much greater leverage over the Bernie/AOC progressive wing of the Democratic party.

 

[Ghost SWO]

As to fraud: the states trump is concerned about where until recently dependable red states. That means that they had been proactively gerrymandered by their republican governments, election laws were overseen by republicans, and then when the purported fraud was brought up before republican judges the cases were all tossed out because there was no actual evidence. If that setup that I just articulated didn't agree with the fraud and you still think there actually was widespread fraud to the extent that would have changed the results I don't know what to tell you. Oh, also many of the down ballot races still resulted in Republican picks so it's not like the Republican vote was denied at the polls.

I hope not, and right now I don't think so.

Incoming theory:

I hope what we've seen in Congress over the last four years was not just a diversion (Impeachment etc.). How do you go about stealing gold bricks from a safe in Venice? You need a diversion to draw attention away from what you're actually doing. The Democrats are driving their fancy Italian boat away loaded with gold bricks and everyone is none the wiser because we were all focused on the imploded hotel four blocks away that has "Trump" in gold letters on it.

Why is there no evidence? Maybe the diversion was so effective, it gave them time to get away scot free and no one is ever going to find out. Maybe the diversion is so effective, we're still debating about how Trump is a good guy or bad guy and we're missing the whole thing?

/end theory

 

[ABMD]

As to fraud: the states trump is concerned about where until recently dependable red states. That means that they had been proactively gerrymandered by their republican governments, election laws were overseen by republicans, and then when the purported fraud was brought up before republican judges the cases were all tossed out because there was no actual evidence. If that setup that I just articulated didn't agree with the fraud and you still think there actually was widespread fraud to the extent that would have changed the results I don't know what to tell you. Oh, also many of the down ballot races still resulted in Republican picks so it's not like the Republican vote was denied at the polls.

Theory (not mine), which is exactly why some people are calling shenanigans. If someone would vote down ballot Republican, why wouldn't they vote for the Republican Presidential candidate.

My theory, there are more people who despise Trump than actually like him. His behavior over the last 4 years has just reinforced their distain for the man. This was less a vote on his policies and more a vote on the character of the man occupying the Oval Office.

 

[Pags]

Theory (not mine), which is exactly why some people are calling shenanigans. If someone would vote down ballot Republican, why wouldn't they vote for the Republican Presidential candidate.

My theory, there are more people who despise Trump than actually like him. His behavior over the last 4 years has just reinforced their distain for the man. This was less a vote on his policies and more a vote on the character of the man occupying the Oval Office.

Yeah, I can see that and I agree with your answer to it. I know voting a split ballot is anathema to "true believers" but I think many others in the parties tend to forget tend to approach a ballot in that way (I know I do).

 

[Pags]

I hope not, and right now I don't think so.

Incoming theory:

I hope what we've seen in Congress over the last four years was not just a diversion (Impeachment etc.). How do you go about stealing gold bricks from a safe in Venice? You need a diversion to draw attention away from what you're actually doing. The Democrats are driving their fancy Italian boat away loaded with gold bricks and everyone is none the wiser because we were all focused on the imploded hotel four blocks away that has "Trump" in gold letters on it.

Why is there no evidence? Maybe the diversion was so effective, it gave them time to get away scot free and no one is ever going to find out. Maybe the diversion is so effective, we're still debating about how Trump is a good guy or bad guy and we're missing the whole thing?

/end theory

What the hell does that even mean? What has been stolen? Again, how do you purport that anything was stolen when republican controlled states control their own elections that failed the Republican party? I think the Republican faithful are surprised that some people can believe in the american democratic and legal process and can be republicans.

 

[Flash]

Incoming theory:

I hope what we've seen in Congress over the last four years was not just a diversion (Impeachment etc.). How do you go about stealing gold bricks from a safe in Venice? You need a diversion to draw attention away from what you're actually doing. The Democrats are driving their fancy Italian boat away loaded with gold bricks and everyone is none the wiser because we were all focused on the imploded hotel four blocks away that has "Trump" in gold letters on it.

Why is there no evidence? Maybe the diversion was so effective, it gave them time to get away scot free and no one is ever going to find out. Maybe the diversion is so effective, we're still debating about how Trump is a good guy or bad guy and we're missing the whole thing?

/end theory

Bullshit like that is why you had a mob invade the Capitol last week. It is hard to believe that so many Americans buy into that but way too many do, to our peril.

 

[Ghost SWO]

What the hell does that even mean? What has been stolen? Again, how do you purport that anything was stolen when republican controlled states control their own elections that failed the Republican party? I think the Republican faithful are surprised that some people can believe in the american democratic and legal process and can be republicans.

I don't think it deserves defending, it's just a silly theory.

Bullshit like that is why you had a mob invade the Capitol last week. It is hard to believe that so many Americans buy into that but way too many do, to our peril.

Hey, I didn't have a mob invade the Capitol last week!

 

[Griz882]

I’ve said much the same over the last few years - that both parties were in the middle of civil wars. I would not be surprised if President-Elect Biden makes a play for the disaffected business interest / voters in the Republican party and tries to govern in a European style center- left (senior) / center- right (junior) coalition. This allows an increase in financial strength, decimates the current Republican party and allows much greater leverage over the Bernie/AOC progressive wing of the Democratic party.

This is good analysis except Biden is too late to the dance. There are no moderates of his mold behind him and the republicans know it. The R’s are taking a deserved hit, but they they are also getting a clean break from the past...will they take advantage?

 

[Brett327]

I hope not, and right now I don't think so.

Incoming theory:

I hope what we've seen in Congress over the last four years was not just a diversion (Impeachment etc.). How do you go about stealing gold bricks from a safe in Venice? You need a diversion to draw attention away from what you're actually doing. The Democrats are driving their fancy Italian boat away loaded with gold bricks and everyone is none the wiser because we were all focused on the imploded hotel four blocks away that has "Trump" in gold letters on it.

Why is there no evidence? Maybe the diversion was so effective, it gave them time to get away scot free and no one is ever going to find out. Maybe the diversion is so effective, we're still debating about how Trump is a good guy or bad guy and we're missing the whole thing?

/end theory

Statements like this are not consistent with uniformed service, or the guidance recently put out by CJCS and the service chiefs. I recommend you rethink this kind of discourse on this site. If I had heard someone in uniform seriously engaging in such "theorizing," there would have been paperwork for that individual to sign.

 

[taxi1]

Why is there no evidence?

good question