Consequences for Veterans and/or retirees in the 2021 DC Riots

[BigRed389]

Tell it to the Republican Secretary of State and the Republican governor in Georgia. They ran 3 recounts and matched every paper receipt 100% with the voting machines, yet Trump kept up The Big Lie. Etc.

That is a waste of time, because that doesn't address the problem.

It doesn't matter how great the process is, if Trump is going to tell his base that it is fraudulent, which he did with some absolutely batshit crazy arguments that were easily refuted and yet believed by his base.

The process wasn't the problem. Trump was the problem.

So the problem is that I can’t explain to my friends who are in the Trump camp just what the electoral process is that safeguards election security.

My point is there is no transparency by the states, or at least poor publicity, on what those are. Which makes fighting such disinformation very difficult.

I agree with you the Trump camp’s electoral fraud claims got to the point of being irresponsible. If he had won he would’ve said it was the most secure election in history ever, anywhere. But you’re not going to be able to stop the “next Trump” from doing the same thing without information to counter misinformation. That makes a process review or “audit” or whatever worthwhile. It is very problematic that something like 75% of Republicans believe there was significant election fraud. You can’t have a democracy with that kind of mistrust - no matter how right you are that they are wrong. Even the biggest assholes get to feel like their vote was counted.

 

[AllYourBass]

I guess to be fair...

The Big Lie

We can debate better

 

[Jim123]

Do I think the "stop the steal" movement is dumb? I sure do.

But I also think it is wrong to dismiss their concerns out of hand. That's kinda like saying that those millions of people are too dumb to vote. Be that as it may, it would set a bad precedent in western democracies.

This really does go both ways and it seems to be who's winning and losing the current cycle. Using the word "hijack" was just as dumb as using the word "steal." At this point I'm not really sure who started it, left or right. Not really sure how many more election cycles it's going to take for us to ever break free of the two mainstream parties or for them to break their cycle of idiocy. I don't really care which one of those things happens, I'd be happy if either one did.

 

[bubblehead]

That's kinda like saying that those millions of people are too dumb to vote.

Some are too dumb to vote. I'm more concerned with the people who should never be allowed to have children, children who end up being raised in abject poverty, perpetuating the cycle.

 

[nittany03]

Some are too dumb to vote. I'm more concerned with the people who should never be allowed to have children, children who end up being raised in abject poverty, perpetuating the cycle.

Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others. It spreads power out amongst all the idiots because that’s generally less risky than rolling the dice on giving all the power to one idiot.

 

[robav8r]

I think this document addresses some of the concerns the electorate had/has with what occurred on Election Day . . .

 

[BigRed389]

Tell it to the Republican Secretary of State and the Republican governor in Georgia. They ran 3 recounts and matched every paper receipt 100% with the voting machines, yet Trump kept up The Big Lie. Etc.

That is a waste of time, because that doesn't address the problem.

It doesn't matter how great the process is, if Trump is going to tell his base that it is fraudulent, which he did with some absolutely batshit crazy arguments that were easily refuted and yet believed by his base.

The process wasn't the problem. Trump was the problem.

See below for Exhibit A.

I think this document addresses some of the concerns the electorate had/has with what occurred on Election Day . . .

My personal assessment is that report is pretty much a bullshit hit piece, but I can't really lay that case out clearly or concisely because I don't know enough about the process.
Can you lay out objectively why the claims or rather insinuations it makes are ridiculous?
If you could walk through the process used by each state, chain of custody style, from registration of voters to tabulation of votes and reporting the results, in an objective manner, I'm of the opinion it would delineate between the die hard fucking crazy people who you will never convince (like....Alex Jones) and those who've just had too much uncertainty and doubt thrown at them.

 

[Sam I am]

That's right - if they don't think like you, they're gullible and can't think for themselves.

Big Lie? Like the crap the leftie libtard Fake News has been spouting for the last 4 years? Excuse me that's Big Lies, plural, since they've spread a hell of a lot more than one.

I thought we weren't name calling anymore. Anyway, neither the fringe left or right can think for themselves and it's not because they don't think like their counterpart. And I do believe if we're examining the last third on either end of the spectrum we're really talking about the final 16% in each direction of the total sample...so I think fringe is a fair term.

My casual observations suggest the more fringe you get in either direction, the lighter the shade of gray matter, the more profound the absence of critical thought, and the more likely to "take it hook, line, and sinker". The footage of the agitated insurrectionist calling for "Heads on pikes!!!" doesn't exactly personify a critical thinker...same goes for anyone calling for the cancellation of all student debt or defunding the police. Once again, no single party has the market cornered on stupidity and we can come up with examples all the live-long day.

 

[SlickAg]

Eh.

Tip lines to report crimes have been a part of policing forever. Cops can't really do their jobs without some level of citizen assistance. If they didn't need help, that's when we're really in Big Brother territory, because it means the electronic surveillance systems are providing the government with everything they need.

Now, the COVID tip lines...yeah that's quite a bit over the top - COVID violations are to my knowledge not defined as an actual crime.

Glad this brave subject [vice citizen since it’s in jolly old England] helped out his local police! The only way we can defeat the virus is 100% compliance! I know it’s replying to an old post, but the bravery of neighbors turning in neighbors for having the audacity to meet up with their children was just so stunning that I felt compelled to share it.

On a serious note, the fact that someone did this means that they must actually believe that those peoples’ actions put them in harm’s way. Which should tell us all something about the power the media holds over us, and the danger in just letting them hold us hostage in our own minds like this.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1353627948738359297

 

[Spekkio]

I’m not surprised because I doubt you could wrap your mind around many things.

Feel free to address the arguments.

But you won’t. We all know why.

I'mma break it down barney mMarine style for you...

Trump lost the election. Biden didn't win it. I don't care if Biden is the next George Washington, the next Ulysses S. Grant, or anyone inbetween. If Trump exercised a modicum of competent leadership while holding the office of the President during the COVID-19 pandemic, he would still be President.

I will not engage in a discussion of defending Biden because it's irrelevant and I don't give a shit.

Yut!

 

[Treetop Flyer]

I'mma break it down barney mMarine style for you...

Trump lost the election. Biden didn't win it. I don't care if Biden is the next George Washington, the next Ulysses S. Grant, or anyone inbetween. If Trump exercised a modicum of competent leadership while holding the office of the President during the COVID-19 pandemic, he would still be President.

I will not engage in a discussion of defending Biden because it's irrelevant and I don't give a shit.

Yut!

What should he have done that would have us in a better place today?

 

[SlickAg]

Impeachment is DOA. Glad that we'll all get to witness such a unifying and healing event like the impeachment of a non-sitting POTUS.

Rand Paul calls impeachment 'dead on arrival' after most Republicans signal that trial is unconstitutional

The Senate tabled an effort by Sen. Rand Paul Tuesday to force a vote on the constitutionality of former President Donald Trump's impeachment trial, but the vote offered an indicator for how Republican senators -- who overwhelmingly voted for Paul's measure -- feel about the trial.

www.cnn.com

Sidenote, this transcript from a town hall interview with the President back in October is pretty enlightening. The man who has signed more than a dozen (I think 16 or 17?) executive orders in his first week in office said the following just three short months ago:

"No, well, I've got to get the votes. I got to get the votes. That's why -- you know, the one thing that I -- I have this strange notion. We are a democracy. Some of my Republican friends and some of my Democratic friends even occasionally say, "Well, if you can't get the votes by executive order, you're going to do something." Things you can't do by executive order unless you're a dictator. We're a democracy. We need consensus."

Read the full transcript of Joe Biden's ABC News town hall

Read the full transcript of Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden's ABC News town hall, Thursday at the National Constitution Center in Philadelphia.

abcnews.go.com

 

[wink]

Impeachment is DOA. Glad that we'll all get to witness such a unifying and healing event like the impeachment of a non-sitting POTUS.

Rand Paul calls impeachment 'dead on arrival' after most Republicans signal that trial is unconstitutional

The Senate tabled an effort by Sen. Rand Paul Tuesday to force a vote on the constitutionality of former President Donald Trump's impeachment trial, but the vote offered an indicator for how Republican senators -- who overwhelmingly voted for Paul's measure -- feel about the trial.

www.cnn.com

Sidenote, this transcript from a town hall interview with the President back in October is pretty enlightening. The man who has signed more than a dozen (I think 16 or 17?) executive orders in his first week in office said the following just three short months ago:

"No, well, I've got to get the votes. I got to get the votes. That's why -- you know, the one thing that I -- I have this strange notion. We are a democracy. Some of my Republican friends and some of my Democratic friends even occasionally say, "Well, if you can't get the votes by executive order, you're going to do something." Things you can't do by executive order unless you're a dictator. We're a democracy. We need consensus."

Read the full transcript of Joe Biden's ABC News town hall

Read the full transcript of Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden's ABC News town hall, Thursday at the National Constitution Center in Philadelphia.

abcnews.go.com

It is just more of the same. It isn't just Biden, or Trump. Famously Obama bragged about his pen. Obama averaged less than Trump per year, and going back, Jimmy Carter broke the record in EOs per year. Of course the subject and content of the Orders is important, but I don't care to look into it that deeply. What is important to me is the shift in power from Congress to the Executive. I have said it here before. Congress abdicates too much of it's power to the Executive by way of the regulatory state. It is their own fault. Their laws make the various agencies in the executive branch too strong, and it is the President that controls his agencies. Many of the more significant EOs we have seen over the modern era would not have been possible if Congress did their jobs. If an uncooperative Congress, doesn't move fast enough or on the policies the President wants, no one should be surprised when he yields the power Congress has irresponsibly given him by default.

 

[taxi1]

Impeachment is DOA. Glad that we'll all get to witness such a unifying and healing event like the impeachment of a non-sitting POTUS.

Republicans are trying to bury a rotting corpse 6” below the ground.

What is important to me is the shift in power from Congress to the Executive.

I'm with you 100%

How it is, is not how it was intended to be.

 

[SlickAg]

It is just more of the same. It isn't just Biden, or Trump. Famously Obama bragged about his pen. Obama averaged less than Trump per year, and going back, Jimmy Carter broke the record in EOs per year. Of course the subject and content of the Orders is important, but I don't care to look into it that deeply. What is important to me is the shift in power from Congress to the Executive. I have said it here before. Congress abdicates too much of it's power to the Executive by way of the regulatory state. It is their own fault. Their laws make the various agencies in the executive branch too strong, and it is the President that controls his agencies. Many of the more significant EOs we have seen over the modern era would not have been possible if Congress did their jobs. If an uncooperative Congress, doesn't move fast enough or on the policies the President wants, no one should be surprised when he yields the power Congress has irresponsibly given him by default.

I agree with you, it’s just interesting to see absolutely no one holding the President’s feet to the fire on his campaign promises. Of course, I expect nothing less than that, but you’d think at least some of the educated people on here, would realize that they’re being hoodwinked.

Here you have a longtime legislator, a member of the good old boys club, who said he’d have to get the votes in order to push his agenda. And he has done the opposite of that. Clearly something has changed in the very core of his being or it’s the team around him pushing this. Having watched videos of him and researched his remarks, I’m more inclined to believe the latter.