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Consequences for Veterans and/or retirees in the 2021 DC Riots

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
It’s not whataboutism, it’s pointing out there isn’t some magic action to take.
I never claimed there was any one magic action to take. But you're comparing over a year of Trump being in office since COVID-19 hit with a week of Biden. There was a lot that Trump could have done in that time span to make things better for people (note I did not say magically fix in a week), but didn't.
I was replying to you inferring Treetop flyer was using whataboutism.
Because he was.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
Conversely, though, is that at the Constitutional Convention, the Founders explicitly rejected "maladministration" as a reason to impeach in favor of only "high crimes and misdemeanors." So you couldn't just impeach someone for sucking at their job.
But that's exactly why it was implemented in the minds of some of the founding fathers. They were afraid of the President turning into a king; impeachment was the check against that. What I find interesting is that they debated whether this power should be held by Congress or state governors. How would the system have been different if the latter method won?
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
I never claimed there was any one magic action to take. But you're comparing over a year of Trump being in office since COVID-19 hit with a week of Biden. There was a lot that Trump could have done in that time span to make things better for people (note I did not say magically fix in a week), but didn't.

Because he was.
29452
He had a plan back in October. Or did he? What’s he waiting for?
 

Sam I am

Average looking, not a farmer.
pilot
Contributor
I would just like to thank Gandhi, the Dalai Lama, his Holiness the Pope, and all the AW All-Stars for making this thread my most successful content ever. I get a little misty-eyed thinking of all the splendid dialogue, constructive back-and-forth, and bridge-building taking place when I read this thread. Especially between Brett and Tree Top. I think I should get an Air Warriors cape or something.

29460
 

Jim123

DD-214 in hand and I'm gonna party like it's 1998
pilot
I would just like to thank Gandhi, the Dalai Lama, his Holiness the Pope, and all the AW All-Stars for making this thread my most successful content ever. I get a little misty-eyed thinking of all the splendid dialogue, constructive back-and-forth, and bridge-building taking place
Be careful, Sam.

You can build a thousand bridges, but...
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
Perhaps you enjoy its more technical term?

Most people can make the link.
If Trump’s covid policy was flawed, why doesn’t Biden change it? That’s not a red herring. It’s basic critical thinking. Why haven’t Western European countries done better at defeating covid?

Perhaps the obvious error is your assertion that Trump’s administration had a poor covid policy.
 

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
pilot
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
If you believe in whataboutism. As I said, I don't. I think using real words to refute a position or idea instead of making up a word to shit down a debate is preferable.
Calling whataboutism is not a way to shut down debate. It's a way to refocus debate on what is actually being debated. Whataboutism goes something like this:

Person A: "Political party X did this thing, and it's wrong."

Person B: "Well, political party Y did this other thing, and that's also wrong, so who are you to judge?"

Person B is engaging in whataboutism, because the debate is not about party Y doing that other thing, which may very well also be wrong. But the argument isn't about that; it's about the wrongness of what Party A did, which is why Person B's example is whataboutism and a red herring. As a clearer example:

Person A: "Suspect X is accused of murdering someone."

Person B: "Well, Suspect Y is accused of an unrelated armed robbery, and that's also wrong, so who are you to judge?"

Suspect Y's alleged armed robbery has fuck-all to do with the wrongness of whether or not Suspect A murdered someone, and to imply otherwise is a fallacy. Calling whataboutism isn't "shutting down debate." It's calling attention to someone deliberately trying to distract people from the original point by saying that someone else is worse, or that someone else has also done something else bad. We aren't talking about that other person; we're talking about the original argument. Both of them can be bad independently, but the badness of the distractor has nothing to do with the badness of the original point. There's a whole article on it here.
 

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
Calling whataboutism is not a way to shut down debate. It's a way to refocus debate on what is actually being debated. Whataboutism goes something like this:

Person A: "Political party X did this thing, and it's wrong."

Person B: "Well, political party Y did this other thing, and that's also wrong, so who are you to judge?"

Person B is engaging in whataboutism, because the debate is not about party Y doing that other thing, which may very well also be wrong. But the argument isn't about that; it's about the wrongness of what Party A did, which is why Person B's example is whataboutism and a red herring. As a clearer example:

Person A: "Suspect X is accused of murdering someone."

Person B: "Well, Suspect Y is accused of an unrelated armed robbery, and that's also wrong, so who are you to judge?"

Suspect Y's alleged armed robbery has fuck-all to do with the wrongness of whether or not Suspect A murdered someone, and to imply otherwise is a fallacy. Calling whataboutism isn't "shutting down debate." It's calling attention to someone deliberately trying to distract people from the original point by saying that someone else is worse, or that someone else has also done something else bad. We aren't talking about that other person; we're talking about the original argument. Both of them can be bad independently, but the badness of the distractor has nothing to do with the badness of the original point. There's a whole article on it here.
I agree with actual whataboutism. In this case, someone doesn’t grasp the actual meaning and is using it to shut down debate.

Initial argument: Trump handled covid poorly.

My argument: why isn’t the new administration changing anything? Why aren’t we any worse off than much of Western Europe?

He doesn’t have an answer so he tried to dismiss the argument.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
Initial argument: Trump handled covid poorly.

My argument: why isn’t the new administration changing anything? Why aren’t we any worse off than much of Western Europe?
I can't wrap my head around why you don't understand that this is a red herring aka whataboutism.
 
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