COVID-19

[SlickAg]

Do you have the right to eat peanuts at a baseball game, at a playground, or on a public sidewalk, knowing that some people are deathly allergic to peanut particles?

Can’t wait to see the answer to this one. Let me guess: it affects such a SMALL number of people that it doesn’t even move the needle.

 

[Jim123]

I wouldn't say that. I'd say from a public health policy stand point, it's now irrelevant. The concern is (or ought to be) preventing the overloading of our healthcare system.

The majority of the U.S. is obese; if you aren't, you are a minority. It's very unlikely that overweight and obese Americans will change their eating habits or lifestyles because of the risks associated with contracting COVID-19, and even if they did dropping weight takes months, so focusing on this fact accomplishes what exactly?

I think what you're describing is a procrastinator's fallacy- it's like saying I've waited this long so what's the point in doing anything at all now? I disagree with that approach to covid and public health.

You're right, it wouldn't make any measurable difference overnight but it will pay off down the road, and covid-19 is here to stay.

It would make a moral difference overnight. Right now the official party line is to mask shame the unmasked, including people who have made healthy choices all along- who are people who have taken personal responsibility and put in hard work to stick with those choices. Punishing the hard workers and rewarding the slothly, that's un-American

 

[Spekkio]

Do you have the right to eat peanuts at a baseball game, at a playground, or on a public sidewalk, knowing that some people are deathly allergic to peanut particles?

So one of my close friends growing up in the 90s was deathly allergic to peanuts. He managed to get through life just fine by knowing that he shouldn't eat peanuts, even though his friends next to him would have PB&J, roasted peanuts, and chips fried in peanut oil on a regular basis.

The jihad against peanuts in school is based on convenience / legal liability.

I think what you're describing is a procrastinator's fallacy- it's like saying I've waited this long so what's the point in doing anything at all now? I disagree with that approach to covid and public health.

You're right, it wouldn't make any measurable difference overnight but it will pay off down the road, and covid-19 is here to stay.

It would make a moral difference overnight. Right now the official party line is to mask shame the unmasked, including people who have made healthy choices all along- who are people who have taken personal responsibility and put in hard work to stick with those choices. Punishing the hard workers and rewarding the slothly, that's un-American

I agree that going after obesity in America is worthwhile, but how? All previous attempts so far have been ineffective, which have included pointing out that obesity is associated with increased adverse health risks.

 

[Hair Warrior]

Can’t wait to see the answer to this one. Let me guess: it affects such a SMALL number of people that it doesn’t even move the needle.

View attachment 32303

But, it could kill them. They might die. Even though they are doing everything right. It’s the government’s job to protect them from encountering neglectful people who might kill them, right?

 

[SlickAg]

So one of my close friends growing up in the 90s was deathly allergic to peanuts. He managed to get through life just fine by knowing that he shouldn't eat peanuts, even though his friends next to him would have PB&J, roasted peanuts, and chips fried in peanut oil on a regular basis.

The jihad against peanuts in school is based on convenience / legal liability.

Your friend clearly doesn't understand how you and his other friends were taking his life into your hands with your reckless and careless acts.

 

[taxi1]

they've now had 18 months to come up with a plan to mitigate their own vulnerability.

I get it. But for example, I have two people that work for me, one is immune compromised due to a long battle with stage IV lymphoma and his doc wants him to only be around fellow vaccinated, and another who does not want to get vaccinated. They both work in a shared lab.

Recommendation?

deathly allergic to peanut

Covid is contagious, so we deal with multiplicative risk (google it). But the peanut allergy is not far off from the scenario above. We go into “peanut allergy” marked spaces, and it’d be a dick move to bring a jar of Jiffy’s in there. Could they be sued?

 

[taxi1]

You know what's a bit funny? This notion that all of a sudden we're hyper-sensitive to "infecting other people" when we have never as a society, writ large, (OK, with a very few exceptions), ever cared before. Isn't it funny that Flu & Cold data, death by all the myriad other causes, is no longer easily accessible on the CDC and other USG websites? A smart man once said; "you can't manage what you can't measure." The entire COVID-19 narrative is being forced down the throats of the entire world with no context, no comparative data. Why ???

There was definitely a line to be crossed. I figure Covid is close enough to make an argument. But if Covid had a 10% mortality rate like the 2003-2004 SARS Covid and was just as contagious, do you think there’d be any question?

 

[Jim123]

I get it. But for example, I have two people that work for me, one is immune compromised due to a long battle with stage IV lymphoma and his doc wants him to only be around fellow vaccinated, and another who does not want to get vaccinated. They both work in a shared lab.

Recommendation?

I'd recommend trying to soft sell* on each- the former to wear proper PPE, as in a sealed, tight-fitting N95 mask (which he/she really should be doing at the grocery store and other indoor public spaces) and the latter to reconsider his/her position on the various vaccines, go the extra mile for their coworker. Try to accommodate your immune compromised worker with clean air in the workplace (not just the lab, but the break room, washrooms, common rooms). HEPA filters in the HVAC system go a long way compared to ordinary dust filters. Not trying to reinvent the wheel with a single post, shooting from the hip, there is some good expertise out there and I'd seek it.

Obviously it's not practical to split them up or to reassign one of them elsewhere; I take it you have them both in that lab because of their individual skills...


*sales pitch, not to be misconstrued as the soft cell from the SERE curriculum... that's something entirely different!

 

[SlickAg]

There was definitely a line to be crossed. I figure Covid is close enough to make an argument. But if Covid had a 10% mortality rate like the 2003-2004 SARS Covid and was just as contagious, do you think there’d be any question?

Man, good thing it’s like 10 times less deadly than that so we don’t even have to broach that, right?

Covid is contagious, so we deal with multiplicative risk (google it). But the peanut allergy is not far off from the scenario above. We go into “peanut allergy” marked spaces, and it’d be a dick move to bring a jar of Jiffy’s in there. Could they be sued?

How come Sweden isn’t worried about multiplicative risk? Is that something that only exists in North America?

 

[Spekkio]

I get it. But for example, I have two people that work for me, one is immune compromised due to a long battle with stage IV lymphoma and his doc wants him to only be around fellow vaccinated, and another who does not want to get vaccinated. They both work in a shared lab.

Recommendation?

@Jim123 covered the 'what do' from a managerial perspective quite well.

However, one thing to note in your anecdote is that it's magnifying edge cases because of the small number of employees; thus your take of 'hey mr. unvaxxed man, don't come to work until you get the shot' is a workable solution. It becomes a much different conversation if the ratios start to match the general population. Will you tell 50 workers not to come to work to protect the one person with stage IV lymphoma, or will you try to make special accomodations for that one individual?

From a policy perspective, we cannot restrict the activities of 330,000,000 Americans for the 73,000 who have stage IV lymphoma. Rather than writing a check to every individual regardless of employment status in a COVID omnibus bill, we could have focused on government assistance that would have allowed people who are immunocompromized to avoid having to put themselves in a risky situation.

 

[Hair Warrior]

Covid is contagious, so we deal with multiplicative risk (google it). But the peanut allergy is not far off from the scenario above. We go into “peanut allergy” marked spaces, and it’d be a dick move to bring a jar of Jiffy’s in there. Could they be sued?

So then why aren’t the people who fear COVID looking to sue China and its Wuhan biolab?

Unlike the humble peanut plant, this virus is not of 100% natural origin.

 

[taxi1]

I'd recommend trying to soft sell* on each- the former to wear proper PPE, as in a sealed, tight-fitting N95 mask (which he/she really should be doing at the grocery store and other indoor public spaces) and the latter to reconsider his/her position on the various vaccines, go the extra mile for their coworker.

So what we did...no problem selling the former on PPE. He’s had a sign up since before the pandemic, asking people to be considerate if they have a cold, etc.

I’ve told the unvaccinated one to work from home, remote, which we’ve enabled. It also allows him to skip the weekly test requirement for unvaxxed who come to work. But it’d be better if he could come in.

 

[taxi1]

So then why aren’t the people who fear COVID looking to sue China and its Wuhan biolab?

Unlike the humble peanut plant, this virus is not of 100% natural origin.

If there’s a lawyer who will take the case...

 

[FrankTheTank]

So for shits and grins, I went to VAERS to see how awesome the vaccine is doing and adverse reactions are up to 19%. AWESOME

 

[taxi1]

I went to VAERS

Link?