CVN 70 F-35 ramp strike mishap report

[hscs]

Did a 300+ nm one a while back and that was at the edge oh an HH. Can’t imagine a 450nm in a 60S.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Can you please explain a SHB to us non-aviators?

The Shit-Hot Break (SHB) or “expedited recovery” involves a high speed initial (>350) to a break turn over the ship (properly executed, break aft of the LSO platform) and slowing down rapidly to land with little to no time spent on downwind. It’s considered “shit hot” because the jet has very little time to stabilize on approach, so it requires precise energy, positional, and configuration management throughout the maneuver.


A properly executed SHB is a joy to watch, and even more fun to fly. You don’t win anything except personal satisfaction and rep in the debrief… unless you fuck up.

 

[insanebikerboy]

Was there a reason why CMV22 types didn’t take the CASEVAC?

From Ward’s commentary apparently the docs onboard said the patient needed to be lower than 100 feet (wavetops as he put it), and the -22 guys said no to flying that low.

I know head trauma needs to be kept low but I always was under the impression that meant a couple hundred feet versus thousands. I can’t imagine the difference between 50 and 200 was that significant, but then again I’m not a flight doc.

 

[Brett327]

Any community folks know how the pilot is doing in terms of recovery?

 

[blackbeard]

Some fantastic analysis of the F-35C mishap on CVN 70 last year:

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23686824/f-35c-records-for-release-redacted-v2.pdf

Ward's analysis and commentary followed by CW's

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Interesing that CMV-22 COD MEDEVAC of seriously injured LSO was declined by crew. MH-60S folks stepped up to the plate and did the 450 NM MEDEVAC. What does the configuration of a MH-60S look like to do 450 NM MEDEVAC?

MP kept wings but no longer in flight status.

Fascinating stuff from experts.

Configuration is 2 internal aux tanks. In the past this hasn't really been a thing that the community has done. HSC-4 (HSC on the CVN70) was practicing a new procedure to assist in SAR coverage for MARSTRKs (long range plane guard if you will) so double bubble was a common practice. The day prior to the mishap they flew a greater distance to pick up 2 high-pri medical patients on a small boy and flew them into the Philippines, again only possible with both aux tanks installed.

 

[Gatordev]

I know head trauma needs to be kept low but I always was under the impression that meant a couple hundred feet versus thousands. I can’t imagine the difference between 50 and 200 was that significant, but then again I’m not a flight doc.

I've stopped asking if I'm staying under 2K'. No one seems to be concerned with it, though our flights are considerably shorter. I will make sure if it's certain kinds of trauma if it's okay to go up to 3K' or higher for an IFR flight plan.

I did have to fly an aortic disection (I believe that's what it was) where the guy was sewn up from stem to stern and needed to go to a surgeon. I had to fly him from Jax to Tampa and we had to go IFR, which pretty much meant 5K' for at least an hour. The crew was good with it, because they knew it was the only thing I could give them. I think they were just happy it was a smooth flight and the patient didn't die along the way, which was very possible, independent of any altitude related issues.

 

[robav8r]

Possibly. At some point though, pilots just need to follow their procedures. You shouldn't land with the gear up, either, yet pilots try that with astonishing regularity.

Designing more "pilot proof" features into the system is nice, but only up to a point. Too many over-protective features can make the airplane harder to use and actually increase risk in some situations (not to mention complexity). Think about automation reliance in transport category communities, and the subsequent degradation of manual flying skills and the increase in "what's it doing now?" type of problems.

It's a careful balance for aircraft designers and folks who set operational policy.

Broadly speaking, aren't your comments in line with what Boeing try to engineer into the 737 MAX ?

 

[sevenhelmet]

Broadly speaking, aren't your comments in line with what Boeing try to engineer into the 737 MAX ?

Broadly speaking, yes, in that a system intended to reduce pilot workload ended up contributing to two total-loss mishaps.

 

[Hopeful Hoya]

Any community folks know how the pilot is doing in terms of recovery?

Physically, he’s fine. Seat and all of the survival equipment worked per design. Like the JAGMAN said, he kept his wings but is no longer in a flying billet.

 

[Gonzo08]

Physically, he’s fine. Seat and all of the survival equipment worked per design. Like the JAGMAN said, he kept his wings but is no longer in a flying billet.

The MEDEVAC wasn't for the pilot though right? It was for the LSO?

 

[number9]

The Shit-Hot Break (SHB) or “expedited recovery” involves a high speed initial (>350) to a break turn over the ship (properly executed, break aft of the LSO platform) and slowing down rapidly to land with little to no time spent on downwind. It’s considered “shit hot” because the jet has very little time to stabilize on approach, so it requires precise energy, positional, and configuration management throughout the maneuver.


A properly executed SHB is a joy to watch, and even more fun to fly. You don’t win anything except personal satisfaction and rep in the debrief… unless you fuck up.

Thank you!

 

[Swanee]

Physically, he’s fine. Seat and all of the survival equipment worked per design. Like the JAGMAN said, he kept his wings but is no longer in a flying billet.

Interesting that the JAGMAN says they was a top performer, but the FNAEB (assuming they didn't voluntarily terminate it themself) took their flight status. I suppose it only takes one flight if you really go big when you fuck it away. But interesting none the less.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Interesting that the JAGMAN says they was a top performer, but the FNAEB (assuming they didn't voluntarily terminate it themself) took their flight status. I suppose it only takes one flight if you really go big when you fuck it away. But interesting none the less.

Exactly- it only takes one flight to crash a $100M+ fighter because you exceeded the limits of your own skill.

Also, your use of pronouns is very… risk averse.

 

[Swanee]

Exactly- it only takes one flight to crash a $100M+ fighter because you exceeded the limits of your own skill.

Also, your use of pronouns is very… risk averse.

You're not... Wrong... ?

 

[nittany03]

Also, your use of pronouns is very… risk averse.

Especially when the correct ones have already been used.