DDG-1000 dead in the water!

[nittany03]

Part of the problem is that from what I have seen, the only missiles it carries are RAM's for missile defense. That and a 57mm gun is all? And what littoral is it suppose to operate in? Kind of pathetic.......

I was pointing out what a LCS could have been, which is a land-attack FFG on steroids. Cheaper and smaller than a Spruance but with more firepower than a Perry. Good USW suite in order to go after those pesky SSKs. Capable of self-defense from an AAW perspective. Given that I have zero experience in shipbuilding/shoedom, I may very well be talking out the wrong end of my alimentary canal. But if I hadn't heard of the LCS fiasco, that's what I would associate with the phrase "Littoral Combat Ship."

 

[Flash]

I was pointing out what a LCS could have been, which is a land-attack FFG on steroids. Cheaper and smaller than a Spruance but with more firepower than a Perry. Good USW suite in order to go after those pesky SSKs. Capable of self-defense from an AAW perspective. Given that I have zero experience in shipbuilding/shoedom, I may very well be talking out the wrong end of my alimentary canal. But if I hadn't heard of the LCS fiasco, that's what I would associate with the phrase "Littoral Combat Ship."

Gotcha. Some of the recent Euro-frigates are more along the lines of what we should be buying for an LCS, they can actually defend themselves.

 

[nittany03]

Gotcha. Some of the recent Euro-frigates are more along the lines of what we should be buying for an LCS, they can actually defend themselves.

That's the funny thing about hostile littorals. There are these things called SSMs all over the place, which make you have to do this thing called countertargeting. :icon_tong

 

[FlyinSpy]

Bottom line? We suck. Our acquisition process is as broke as broke can be. (To use poor grammar and risk the attack of the AW Grammar Nazis...)

The Air Force may be bad in the acquisition department, but honestly, we're worse. Airplanes, ships, subs - doesn't matter. Kelly Johnson, founder of the Skunk Works and builder of the F-104/U2/SR71 etc, used to have 14 Rules for Program Management - sound guides for getting a program off the ground (literally) and running it to completion. See http://noisebetweenstations.com/personal/weblogs/?p=1679 for a list. He also had a 15th, unwritten, rule:

15. Starve before doing business with the damned Navy. They don’t know what in hell they want and will drive you up a wall before they break either your heart or a more exposed part of your anatomy.

And this was 40+ years ago - if Kelly were still around today, this axiom would still hold true.

 

[Xtndr50boom]

Oh, the irony:

A two-ship, uber-expensive class of destroyers named after the Admiral/CNO who, if he were still alive, would rail against them for costing way too much, and for not meeting the needs of the Navy.

 

[VetteMuscle427]

I was pointing out what a LCS could have been, which is a land-attack FFG on steroids. Cheaper and smaller than a Spruance but with more firepower than a Perry. Good USW suite in order to go after those pesky SSKs. Capable of self-defense from an AAW perspective. Given that I have zero experience in shipbuilding/shoedom, I may very well be talking out the wrong end of my alimentary canal. But if I hadn't heard of the LCS fiasco, that's what I would associate with the phrase "Littoral Combat Ship."

+1

Take a the Perry class, put some new links, CEC, and a VLS cell in the front. For a minimum of cost you could have your gunboat w/ ample ability to protect itself (even if just a few ESSM quad packs), a light ability to conduct land attack, a basing for helicopter... and I think something we're losing sight of... a towed sonar array. None of the Flight IIA DDGs have a towed array... what happens when we move back out into the blue ocean?

 

[Mumbles]

Just to sum it up....

this.....will be toast...

when confronted with a few dozen of these....

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/7076/paykeepdiagram1no0.jpg

 

[VetteMuscle427]

Yes, but I heard that THIS one has a really killer Sunday Brunch.

 

[eddie]

Are some (a lot) of the design issues because of this whole modular, "let's carry troops with it too!" thing?

 

[Mumbles]

I heard the same thing....

 

[nittany03]

Oh, the irony:

A two-ship, uber-expensive class of destroyers named after the Admiral/CNO who, if he were still alive, would rail against them for costing way too much, and for not meeting the needs of the Navy.

But would they let the crew wear beards?

 

[BigRed389]

The good Euro frigates are actually pretty expensive and damn near as big as a US DDG.

Everybody here seems to agree the LCS or any littoral ship should have Land Attack, AAW, ASW, and ASUW capabilities along with aviation support.

Challenge is, name a single ship that offers all of the following:

Air defense radar powerful enough to utilize SM-2s...otherwise you've got not much more than point defense against low flying supersonic missiles
VLS system with enough cells to have SM-2s/ESSM, Tomahawk, and VLAs
CIWS/RAM
5 inch gun or better(8 inch/155mm is considered a minimum to engage armor/targets under cover)
VLS...again
SSMs
Hull Mounted Sonar
Towed Array
Sonobuoy Processing System
Helo Hangar+Flight Deck

For all of that, nothing short of a CG offers the whole package. When it comes to aviation/ASW capabilities, DDGs essentially follow the "modular" concept...Flight Is have SSMs, a hangar and a towed array, Flight IIs have helos, but no towed array, many lack SSMs and CIWS as well.

Point is, all that shit crowds up the space on a DDG as it is. Even with miniaturization of the processors, trying to put that on a considerably smaller ship like a Perry size frigate is going to be a challenge at the least. Powerful radars, sensitive sonars, and the like are all space consuming. Then you need generators to power all that stuff, engines to move at a decent speed, fuel to get around...space fills up pretty quick.

 

[webmaster]

what happens when we move back out into the blue ocean?

Oh, you can just rely on the P3s then.... oh, wait... never mind.

 

[FlyingBeagle]

I'm much more worried about Anti Ship Missiles of the super sonic and ballistc variety, then I am of flankers.

Did they invent some sort of anti-dorm room modification?

 

[A4sForever]

..... Challenge is, name a single ship that offers all of the following:

Air defense radar powerful enough to utilize SM-2s...otherwise you've got not much more than point defense against low flying supersonic missiles
VLS system with enough cells to have SM-2s/ESSM, Tomahawk, and VLAs
CIWS/RAM
5 inch gun or better(8 inch/155mm is considered a minimum to engage armor/targets under cover)
VLS...again
SSMs
Hull Mounted Sonar
Towed Array
Sonobuoy Processing System
Helo Hangar+Flight Deck
.......