-
Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?
Go here:
Edit Account Details and Profile
Dear Boss, I quit! A letter to Air Force leadership....
- Thread starter bunk22
- Start date
Here's another gem from this beauty...
"The Navy is buying twice as many fighters as the Air Force this year and you wonder why my faith is shaken?"
Gee...turbo...let's analyze that a bit...
Turnkey F-22 Cost- ~350 million/copy
Turnkey F-35 Cost- ~150 million/copy
Turnkey F/A-18F Cost- ~58 million/copy
So let me get this straight...I can get two F-35's and a Super Hornet for about the cost of your F-22? You're lucky it's only twice as many asshat.
"The Navy is buying twice as many fighters as the Air Force this year and you wonder why my faith is shaken?"
Gee...turbo...let's analyze that a bit...
Turnkey F-22 Cost- ~350 million/copy
Turnkey F-35 Cost- ~150 million/copy
Turnkey F/A-18F Cost- ~58 million/copy
So let me get this straight...I can get two F-35's and a Super Hornet for about the cost of your F-22? You're lucky it's only twice as many asshat.
The "airpowER" thing was a dig at this dude's AF JPME word salad. Anyway...//translation// I have no patience for jet guys who complain about ANYTHING. Now that I've kicked that over that wasp's nest, keep reading...
The parts of the letters that resonated most (with me) were the excerpts about fundamental leadership failures and community culture shifts - to the point where he may not sense that he and "his" organization share similar values and priorities.
Culture is always shifting. Always. You can adapt, get on board and try to exert changes from the inside - or, as bert said, vote with your feet. The pseudo-existentialism and pearl-clutching that culture warriors espouse wears thin really quickly.
I don't want JO behavior in my senior leaders.
So we invaded the most backwards country in the world, arguably the one least able to defend itself, and we didn't need the airforce for the first few months....Your point is?
And this is comming from a Marine. I hate the AirForce like everyone else does. The difference is, I know we need them.
Sure, but our values, definitions of right and wrong, as well as general leadership traits don't - they can't. These concepts need to be resilient to changing political/social winds.
neither do I, but more importantly I don't want sanctimonious lectures from retired admirals whose antics then were similar or worse than shit they're firing people for now. If I'm not mistaken DUIs were illegal in 1980 - f'ing the help was wrong in 1980 - fudging paperwork was wrong in 1980 - beating up locals in port was wrong in 1980. Why was it ok when they were JOs and now its not? Hyperbole? Sure. Of course it wasn't "ok" then, but it was recoverable - it was non-fatal WRT their careers.
The recent neutering of local commanders is the big difference between how their behavior was tacitly condoned and today's zero defect environment.
And this is what I think some of you are missing by arguing about whether we need to buy more F-22s or whether the Navy and Marines actually need KC-10/135s (hint: we do). The bigger point that he brings out is one that cuts across all services and it is one of senior leadership continually failing to allow local commanders to command. The "dear boss" author accurately identifies matters of micromanagement and mis-priorization that affect every service. Is it a result of a 24 hour news cycle? A public that pays more attention? Political winds? Over extended resources? I've got my guesses.
The author writes "We care more about looking good than actually being good..." to that extent he's got a pretty good grasp of the situation regardless of whether you think he's a choad, a whinner, or a pretty boy fighter pilot who has the audacity to care about being good at 1v1.
Thanks for putting into words what was sitting in the pit of my stomach while I was reading that petulant drivel. And for teaching me how to spell choad. I've been doing it wrong for years.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
So what would you argue our "job" is? I would contend that it is encapsulated in our doctrine.
MEU doctrine is that they are able to conduct an amphibious operation (raid, demo, assault, etc) and be self-sustaining for 15 days. The assault of Camp Rhino is classified as the longest amphibious assault in history. And we were operating without the Air Force for longer than 15 days - guess we didn't get the memo we couldn't do our job without them.
My point is this - he can't make a blanket statement that we can't do our jobs without them. I didn't see the Air Force in Liberia, when I was doing humanitarian ops as a self-contained MEU/ARG. Yes, the Air Force was involved in the 2nd largest NEO in history (and if you're curious which one it was, just ask Anthony Bourdain). However, they were a MINOR player (Pave Lows ONLY, and really used to their max capabilities, doing lift). Oh - and Charlie Company 1/8 and the CH-53Es arrived to reinforce the embassy/start pulling people out before the Air Force arrived. NEO from Liberia after the opening days of OIF? Yup. MEU/ARG - no Air Force around. Albania? Grenada? Sea Dragon? The Magellan Star? Maersk Alabama? Pretty sure Ohio Class nuclear subs are capable of doing their job (strategic deterrence) without any input from the Air Force. Shall I go on?
We can do a huge percentage of our jobs without the Air Force.
Now if someone were to suggest the Marine Corps can't do its job without the Navy, then I'd tend to agree...
I think the Air Force is a huge force multiplier. Strat lift, CAS, tanker support, etc... But to suggest that I can't do my job without you?!? C'mon. How's that going to work out when you need host nation support and I don't?
In this instance I am reminded of that scene from Blackhawk Down: "You Delta boys think you are hot shit. But when you get down to the 2 yard line, you are going to need me and my Rangers."
The chode/choad said "None of the other services can do their jobs without us." Was that hyperbole? Yes. My job tomorrow is to go to FOD walk at 730, do some bullshit admin paperwork, do a sim, then waste some time before the club push at 1600. Do I need the air force to do any of that? No.
Do we need the air force for disaster relief or contingency operations? Probably not. Does the navy need the air force to be a "global force for good?" No.
I'll grab beers with you and toast to the Corps and how we always over-deliver when given the hardest tasks with the least amount of resources. But do we need the air force? Yes. They make many of the things we take for granted possible, and I for one will be happy to have a division of F-15's up in the morono-sphere, after I got gas from the KC-135, when we do the strike that I am going to tell my grandkids about some day.
Even that Ohio class benefits from the air superiority provided by the air force. Don't they get their communication from E-6's?
I thought the Navy flew E-6's out of Tinker....
Would you call an F-117 pilot a "fighter pilot?"
Better yet, would you tell the Sea Harrier pilots in the Faulklands that they weren't?
I enjoy some good-nature ribbing of my Harrier buddies, but I wouldn't go so far as to say they weren't fighter pilots. Granted, there are far better platforms out there for A/A, but they do train to the mission to a small extent.
I'm all for the AF and their "unique capabilities." These are, by my humble LTs reckoning, 1) strategic bombing, 2) large-scale aerial refueling, and 3) strategic lift. Nothing else they do is unique, including air superiority. Especially not on the scale they demand for the costs involved. And, by the way, the Marines at K-Bay contract with some firm flying big Russian jets to carry their -53s out to Afghanistan because the AF is "too expensive," so something ain't right with STRATLIFT either.
Oh, one other area in which they uniquely excel: keeping officers O-5 and above employed.
Oh, one other area in which they uniquely excel: keeping officers O-5 and above employed.
Jeezus...Between this guy and the recent RPA Guys Are Too Combat Pilots! guy... Starting to think the USAF needs to institute mandatory "don't bitch and moan all over the internet, you look like a jackass" training.
As for this "the Air Force is all" thing...they've always been like that. Look back at the days when SAC believed they were the only military the United States needed, period...TAC could stick around to defend SAC bases, plus maybe some Army to sit at Checkpoint Charlie.
As for this "the Air Force is all" thing...they've always been like that. Look back at the days when SAC believed they were the only military the United States needed, period...TAC could stick around to defend SAC bases, plus maybe some Army to sit at Checkpoint Charlie.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
I think you're missing my point. They are a force multiplier. If they vanish today, we will still be able to accomplish all of the missions you're talking about. You'll get gas from a KC-130J or Rhino configured for tanking. And the strike package will just be smaller, because a division of Rhinos is now going to be in the morono-sphere.
Again, his was a self-serving "we're the most important service out there" statement that is just flat out wrong.
What he said.
Well, this, too, is probably a bit of an oversimplified and cynical summarization:
Write my name (BOLD/UNDERLINED) in the "Officially part of the problem" column. Except please give me "an asterisk"...because I actually think that I was "part of the solution" that helped people like you see a light at the end of what was, at times, a VERY loooong tunnel. I took that role increasingly seriously the more senior I got. You should too.
Trust me...I empathize (more than just a little bit) with a lot of what the dude has to say (does he..or do you...think this is something NEW?)...but he lost me at "I don't just quit, I give up!" Sounds like a DOR to me. Fine...more for those who choose to stay.
Short version of my too-long note above: Ladies and gentlemen: it's a fuckin' sine-wave...has happened I don't know how many times during our collective 101+ years. Probably the absolute WORST was the time between WWII and Korea. No...I wasn't there...but I'm privileged to know many who were. So it's happening again. It will change.
If you can't take "the suck"... well, you won't be there when "the blow" starts again.
Helpful hint: If you do punch out for WHATEVER reason, don't sell or donate all of your uniforms to the local Thrift Shop. When your day comes...the day when they give a great party in your honor on the one day they know you can't be there...you or your family are going to want you to be dressed in your SDBs or your choker whites while draped under the flag of your nation. Trust me..."those were the best days of your life".
It seems like many of you are greatly miscalculating the capabilities of the F-18. There are many missions that we train to that we will never do, only because we have the Air Force to lead the way. A division of Rhinos won't be in the morono-sphere, that's why we have the Air Force. There are many scenarios where if my job is winning, then I can't do my job without the Air Force.