Declining Commission

[sevenhelmet]

Do your homework bud. Navy is 20-yr, no-contribution, 50% of base pay. From what I remember, Federal is 20-30yr, lots of contribution, much lower percentage base pay. Take this with a grain of salt; this isn't my SME area and these stats (for Federal GS/LEO) are based on stats I have from a while ago.

Do your homework. This is changing radically. The 20 year plan is not going to be available for new commissions starting in 2018. Even for someone starting today, the new plan may make more sense, especially if you are smart with your money and don't plan on staying in for 20.

@TimLee: Personally in your shoes, I'd take the LEO job.

 

[azguy]

Do your homework. This is changing radically. The 20 year plan is not going to be available for new commissions starting in 2018. Even for someone starting today, the new plan may make more sense, especially if you are smart with your money and don't plan on staying in for 20.

@TimLee: Personally in your shoes, I'd take the LEO job. It sounds more interesting to me, but I have a biased opinion, since SWO was definitely not what I wanted.

Fair enough. But there's no question that the legacy plan still makes more sense for those commissioning in the next year if staying in for a career.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Fair enough. But there's no question that the legacy plan still makes more sense for those commissioning in the next year if staying in for a career.

You may be right- I haven't done the math on 20 year traditional vs. 20 year new with maximum contribution and matching. However, since about 80% of people don't end up staying in for 20, odds are saying "the Navy has a traditional 20 year retirement- period" would be bad gouge for a potential SWO recruit.

 

[azguy]

You may be right- I haven't done the math on 20 year traditional vs. 20 year new with maximum contribution and matching. However, since 83% of people don't end up staying in for 20, odds are this would be bad gouge for a potential SWO recruit.

No doubt, the new program is a bad deal and a serious reduction in the benefit, for all recruits, from SWO to pilot to seaman. Interestingly, when you factor in medical coverage (in addition to pension) it's probably much better than the GS retirement.

 

[sevenhelmet]

No doubt, the new program is a bad deal and a serious reduction in the benefit, for all recruits, from SWO to pilot to seaman. Interestingly, when you factor in medical coverage (in addition to pension) it's probably much better than the GS retirement.

Yup, bad for the sailor, bad for the government (I don't believe it will save money in the long run, and there's a lot of potential for it to create retention issues in some communities). Go figure. [/threadjack]

 

[TimLee]

Do your homework. This is changing radically. The 20 year plan is not going to be available for new commissions starting in 2018. Even for someone starting today, the new plan may make more sense, especially if you are smart with your money and don't plan on staying in for 20.

@TimLee: Personally in your shoes, I'd take the LEO job.

Yeah that was definitely something I noticed from a while back. I think the benefit of this however, is that you could transfer your military retirement to your federal, if I'm not mistaken.

Definitely appreciate your take tho, I was looking into getting into counter-hacking and hacking forensics certs, which was something that I felt would benefit me in Intel, but I really don't see much of an opportunity to continue those certs or actually apply them to SWO. For now tho, I'm leaning towards taking the LEO

 

[sevenhelmet]

Yeah that was definitely something I noticed from a while back. I think the benefit of this however, is that you could transfer your military retirement to your federal, if I'm not mistaken.

Definitely appreciate your take tho, I was looking into getting into counter-hacking and hacking forensics certs, which was something that I felt would benefit me in Intel, but I really don't see much of an opportunity to continue those certs or actually apply them to SWO. For now tho, I'm leaning towards taking the LEO

Those certs sound directly applicable to LE though...

Best of luck to you, no matter what you decide.

 

[Hair Warrior]

if I do decide to say no to SWO, How would I actually decline it?

Just bust down your recruiter's door and yell, "FREEZE. UNITED STATES PARK POLICE. RELEASE THE ENDANGERED SQUIRREL." Then run in circles going "pew pew pew pew"

 

[zippy]

Huh? (I'm correct, right)?

Using 2016 pay numbers:

DoD is 50% of (O-4 in this case) base pay: 6448.20/ month x .5 = 3224.10/ month

No promise you'll be promoted to O-4 and allowed to make 20 on the Active Duty side of the house.

6c LEO FERS is 34% Of basic pay (base pay + locality pay + 25% Law Enforcement availability pay)... in this case GS-13 step 9 (w/ a +14.49% for upstate New York+ 25% LEAP) = 3792.98/ month, not including the FERS Social Security offset/supplement, which ends up being several hundred dollars a month.

Once you're in the system you'll be able to be a 20 years FERS employee no problem and collect the pension.

So for immediate retirement, a FERS 6c GS-13 law enforcement guy makes more $ for life than a guy that may be able to retire as an O-4 SWO... there's a 1% Cola difference under the current retirement system, but the new AD retirement system changes should only weigh more into the favor of becoming a LEO for retirement purposes.

Oh yeah, I forgot the 5% TSP contribution for FERS as well... that's about another $120-130k contributions into TSP over a 20 year period.

@TimLee, in case the illusions of a fat check for life on the Active Duty side of the house are tempting you, there's the math that it's not a really a better deal even though the % advertised is higher.

Take the FLEO job if you want and give your NRD a call and respectfully withdraw your application if that's where your heart lays.

 

[AQ-AT-NAVCIV]

Then after a couple of years, apply as a USNR Intel DCO.

 

[Flash]

Huh? (I'm correct, right)?

For retirement, maybe a little bit but for regular pay and allowances a FLEO can make far more than a JO. How often do you get a vehicle for full time use? 25% overtime like Zippy mentioned. And pretty much a guaranteed job out to 20, unlike the military where only something like 17% of folks retire while something like over 90% of FBI agents do.

So, not really.

 

[zippy]

When I calculate the Locality pay for NYC (29.20%) Vs upstate NY, the pension check at 20 years changes to $4280.31, over $1k a month more than an O-4/20 pension check, not including the FERS social security suppliment and the $120-130k in TSP contributions he'll get as a GS vs Active Duty under the current system.

That's IF he makes it to a 20 year AD retirement which recent history has shown is far from a certainty, where most people can stay to get a pension in the GS world as long as they want to.

 

[DanMa1156]

What the heck is a 6c?

 

[Flash]

What the heck is a 6c?

"The special retirement provision for law enforcement officers and firefighters is found in section 8336(c) of title 5, United States Code. It is some times referred to as 6(c) retirement. The 6(c) provision of the Civil Service Retirement law allows a law enforcement officer or firefighter to receive special retirement benefits after meeting the age and service requirements."

More info:

https://www.opm.gov/retirement-services/special-notices/

http://www.fedsmith.com/2014/03/10/special-retirement-considerations-for-some-federal-employees/

 

[azguy]

DoD is 50% of (O-4 in this case) base pay: 6448.20/ month x .5 = 3224.10/ month
....

6c LEO FERS is 34% Of basic pay (base pay + locality pay + 25% Law Enforcement availability pay)... in this case GS-13 step 9 (w/ a +14.49% for upstate New York+ 25% LEAP) = 3792.98/ month, not including the FERS Social Security offset/supplement, which ends up being several hundred dollars a month.

Agree with your math, thanks for taking the time as I'm definitely not very familiar with GS retirement. I also agree with you that for those not "grandfathered" into the old retirement system (aren't guys that join in the next year or so still grandfathered?) the new system sucks.

My pushback:

A) Most SWOs that "stay in" (for DH) will retire at O-5+. An O-5 @ 20 gets ~ $4,250/month*. O-5 @ 24 gets ~$5,325/month. O-6 @ 30 is ~$8,158. I'm curious as to how this stacks up to GS-14/15 retirements (and also how common...do half of FBI agents retire as GS-14/15)? There's obviously no way to tell how far the OP would rise in the Navy or FBI, but I'm going with the law of averages...chances are he would retire as an O-5 or O-6 if he went career SWO; curious what that looks like for the FBI.

B) Military retirees get VA disability payments, which can be pretty decent for someone with a 20+ year, well-documented medical record.

C) With respect to the TSP matching you mention, while I assume you would argue that it's "free money," it's really not. A military member is free to spend that money on anything they want over the course of their career (a house, travel, beer, etc), whereas the GS has to, effectively, take a pay cut his whole career to garner the TSP payout.

*Note: the military retirements are approximate -- I'm too lazy to calculate out the true High-3 value, I ballparked it, they're pretty close.