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Deny NAI

azguy

azguy

Well-Known Member
None
Flash said:
The airline industry is a pretty rare one in which the laborers, in this case the pilots, have to be very highly trained and skilled and as a result are very hard to replace with competent personnel. The quality of the pilots can have huge impact on the operation of the company unlike any other, if they aren't good the main cargo (people) can be killed. And again, unlike almost any other industry, it can have an outsized impact on the company (regulatory, financial, etc.) and its survival. The quality of the pilots is held to a high standard in the US and western Europe and it is evident in the accident rate for the airlines in those regions, especially when compared to many airlines in other parts of the world. I can point to scores of accidents, many of them very recent, where inadequate training, inexperience and standards cost hundreds of passengers and crew their lives and the vast majority of those more recent accidents were in countries and airlines that are substandard.

The scheme that NAI has set up is one that is ripe for the development of substandard pilots with minimal training and qualifications and the subsequent safety issues that will almost certainly result. The average paying passenger isn't going to care until one of their airplanes falls out of the sky but the chances of that happening with the type of aircrew NAI is planning to employ are a lot higher than I would be comfortable with.
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You're making some good points. I completely agree that being an airline pilot requires more training and skill than working at WalMart and all that, but I think that's beside the point. The purpose of a labor union is to serve the best interests of its members. In some cases, the best interests of the union members will be antithetical to that of the consumer.

I think there may be some hyperbolic rhetoric here though in terms of safety. Discount airline flights aren't exactly falling out of the sky and it would actually be an interesting conversation to have if we could remove emotion from the discussion. Is there a reliable metric to use? I'm totally not familiar with this world; but it would be interesting to see a researched stat that could predict, "if an airline pays pilots $xx,000 less per year, that airline will see an increase of y% catastrophic mishaps."
 
Flash

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
azguy said:
You're making some good points. I completely agree that being an airline pilot requires more training and skill than working at WalMart and all that, but I think that's beside the point. The purpose of a labor union is to serve the best interests of its members. In some cases, the best interests of the union members will be antithetical to that of the consumer.
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In this case I think the interests of both align, for safety's sake.

azguy said:
I think there may be some hyperbolic rhetoric here though in terms of safety. Discount airline flights aren't exactly falling out of the sky and it would actually be an interesting conversation to have if we could remove emotion from the discussion. Is there a reliable metric to use? I'm totally not familiar with this world; but it would be interesting to see a researched stat that could predict, "if an airline pays pilots $xx,000 less per year, that airline will see an increase of y% catastrophic mishaps."
Click to expand...

It would basically be introducing third world airline pilot standards to Europe and third world airlines have a much worse safety record than first world airlines.
 
Treetop Flyer

Treetop Flyer

Well-Known Member
pilot
azguy said:
You're making some good points. I completely agree that being an airline pilot requires more training and skill than working at WalMart and all that, but I think that's beside the point. The purpose of a labor union is to serve the best interests of its members. In some cases, the best interests of the union members will be antithetical to that of the consumer.

I think there may be some hyperbolic rhetoric here though in terms of safety. Discount airline flights aren't exactly falling out of the sky and it would actually be an interesting conversation to have if we could remove emotion from the discussion. Is there a reliable metric to use? I'm totally not familiar with this world; but it would be interesting to see a researched stat that could predict, "if an airline pays pilots $xx,000 less per year, that airline will see an increase of y% catastrophic mishaps."
Click to expand...
It's not just an issue of the unions vs the consumer. The U.S. government forces our airlines to follow their employment laws, 1500 hr ATP mins, and many other regulations. Forcing our own airlines to comply, then allowing foreign airlines that aren't subject to the same rules to operate here isn't "free trade".
 
sevenhelmet

sevenhelmet

Low calorie attack from the Heartland
pilot
I've been seeing a lot of advertising on Netflix by Lufthansa and Emirates lately, including one commercial starring Jennifer Aniston. It made me think of this thread. Is there a connection to this foreign airline push into the US, or is it just in my head?
 
Randy Daytona

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
Not NAI, but competition from the Middle Eastern airlines is tough on Delta, American and United. Some speculation that the new computer ban on flights from the Middle East may not be about security but instead helping US airlines.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-the-underlying-story/?utm_term=.77f27b04f670

It may not be about security. Three of the airlines that have been targeted for these measures — Emirates, Etihad Airways and Qatar Airways — have long been accused by their U.S. competitors of receiving massive effective subsidies from their governments. These airlines have been quietly worried for months that President Trump was going to retaliate. This may be the retaliation.

These three airlines, as well as the other airlines targeted in the order, are likely to lose a major amount of business from their most lucrative customers — people who travel in business class and first class. Business travelers are disproportionately likely to want to work on the plane — the reason they are prepared to pay business-class or first-class fares is because it allows them to work in comfort. These travelers are unlikely to appreciate having to do all their work on smartphones, or not being able to work at all. The likely result is that many of them will stop flying on Gulf airlines, and start traveling on U.S. airlines instead.
 
Flash

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
zippy

zippy

Freedom!
pilot
Contributor
1) Qatar isn't even on the list of banned locations (if that map is accurate).

2) when traveling to/from that area, As annoying as it is to not have my iPad in the plane- I'm not going to add 15hrs+ to a trip in order to not have to check it as baggage... especially when that means all of my flight time is going to be in shitty sardine class economy seats on a US carrier. I personally would rather forgo the electronic devices and travel in some semblance of comfort while completing my trip in half of the time.
 
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