Scimitarze
Automated Member
Are IFS FBOs also involved with normal civilian flight students and programs or are they basically all kept afloat by the Navy contracts?
-
Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?
Go here:
Edit Account Details and Profile
Doing away with IFS?
- Thread starter shanghai_tactics
- Start date
4.2%
In the Spring of 99 I got my Private Pilots License prior to joining the Navy, went to OCS Aug 99, Commissioned in Nov 99, API in Feb 00, Winged July 2001 as an Ensign, Completed the FRS as an Ensign. 4 months of down time throughout the whole process, 3 of which was between OCS & API. Only 2.5 years from the the first day of OCS to the day I hit the fleet. The whole point of the timeline was to point out a few things:
1) Because I was hard a charging civilian who got his Private rating I was accelerated through FAM's (I was actually still FAMs when I started...by the time I finished FAM's they were being called Contacts) which didn't hurt me, but more time in the aircraft is never a bad thing.
2) IMO if you want to get a leg up on your peers in fight school, get your IFR rating. That's where you make your money as a SNA. EDIT: and do it at an airfield where you'll have to use your Radio Comms a lot. I got mine in a po-dunk airfield in WI where comms consisted of "Hey...the is Sam...turning final" ... "Hey Sam, this is Mike, I see you...nice day huh?" That didn't do me any favors when I hit Primary as an accelerated SNA who's comms were "loose".
3) The Navy started the IFS program shortly after I completed primary. It wasn't all that uncommon for SNA's to DOR or really question their career path in Fam's. This wasn't a reflection of any squadron or IP but was a reflection of the simple fact that for many, Primary was their first time flying an airplane and some folks realized it just wasn't for them. It was a regular enough occurence to warrant IFS and let the Navy cut the uncommitted before they got a VT spot. Also, it had to have improved comm's and ground procedures for SNA's. Fuck that was painful the first couple times.
4) I would have loved more down time in training because the op tempo didn't decrease once we hit the fleet.
Punchline: enjoy and play hard.
This next part is for the old salts: it was kinda fun being way ahead of my older JO's timing-wise. I completed my HAC cruise as a JG and never even came up for my O-4 promotion until I after I went Sel-Res. Because I also had a 6 month break in service when I separated and went Sel-Res I ended up being a Sel-Res O-3 for almost 2 years by the time I pinned it O-4. I did five years total as Sel-Res and never went before the O-5 board until after I went IRR. Of course as an IRR member I was not promoted O-5.
1) Because I was hard a charging civilian who got his Private rating I was accelerated through FAM's (I was actually still FAMs when I started...by the time I finished FAM's they were being called Contacts) which didn't hurt me, but more time in the aircraft is never a bad thing.
2) IMO if you want to get a leg up on your peers in fight school, get your IFR rating. That's where you make your money as a SNA. EDIT: and do it at an airfield where you'll have to use your Radio Comms a lot. I got mine in a po-dunk airfield in WI where comms consisted of "Hey...the is Sam...turning final" ... "Hey Sam, this is Mike, I see you...nice day huh?" That didn't do me any favors when I hit Primary as an accelerated SNA who's comms were "loose".
3) The Navy started the IFS program shortly after I completed primary. It wasn't all that uncommon for SNA's to DOR or really question their career path in Fam's. This wasn't a reflection of any squadron or IP but was a reflection of the simple fact that for many, Primary was their first time flying an airplane and some folks realized it just wasn't for them. It was a regular enough occurence to warrant IFS and let the Navy cut the uncommitted before they got a VT spot. Also, it had to have improved comm's and ground procedures for SNA's. Fuck that was painful the first couple times.
4) I would have loved more down time in training because the op tempo didn't decrease once we hit the fleet.
Punchline: enjoy and play hard.
This next part is for the old salts: it was kinda fun being way ahead of my older JO's timing-wise. I completed my HAC cruise as a JG and never even came up for my O-4 promotion until I after I went Sel-Res. Because I also had a 6 month break in service when I separated and went Sel-Res I ended up being a Sel-Res O-3 for almost 2 years by the time I pinned it O-4. I did five years total as Sel-Res and never went before the O-5 board until after I went IRR. Of course as an IRR member I was not promoted O-5.
Last edited:
$315 per month is no joke. I love paying more than BAS.
I've flown GA with one of them, but my perception is probably over 90-95% of their business is Navy IFS. I think one company was doing both IFS and RTP, I assume they were doing quite well with both and are glad IFS is still a thing.
I'll say this, kicking ass at IFS or having a privates doesn't always make people better Naval Aviators. Yeah I have two anchors but the system is designed to take all the bright eyed and bushy tailed studs who did well on the ASTB and have never been in an airport, and get them up to spec in a rigid time frame. Speaking from personal experience, growing up with a CFI dad and him teaching me IFR principles and radio comms did not make everything else easier like learning systems, EPs, navigation, etc. There's so much more than "I can fly/have flown before." No, not every pointy nose pilot had general aviation hours.
Last I checked, PPLs are expensive as hell, and the Navy is going to teach you their way anyhow. If you WANT your PPL to have it, do it...free country.
Last I checked, PPLs are expensive as hell, and the Navy is going to teach you their way anyhow. If you WANT your PPL to have it, do it...free country.
Not every pointy nose pilot has prior time. Many do. Kicking ass at IFS or having a Private doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll be a above average in primary, but it’s a sign of trending in that direction. Having at least an instrument rating heading into the Navy does yield a significant advantage and actual results support that (personally I can say that knowing IFR principles and radios DID make a difference for me). Yes, there are exceptions, including an ATP here or there that has issues (usually attitude issues). However, I don’t care about exceptions. I care about the general case, and those tend to do really well.
PPLs are expensive. I wouldn’t recommend to anyone that they should get one before commissioning for the sole purpose of some kind of edge. But those that have ratings beforehand anyway, or got theirs for free (like me), will be glad they did.
End thread jack.
Would you recommend a SNFO whose interested in getting their PPL try to knock it out after IFS or just wait until they get to the fleet?
For SNFOs I'd grab it while you can in down time after IFS/NIFE. Primary for you will still be worthwhile (IGS for the instrument stuff), but you are no longer really learning how to fly... Once you get to the fleet I promise you will be busier, and balancing workups/deployments etc. All that said, once you class up for primary that should probably be your focus.
Scimitarze
Automated Member
Not wanting to derail, but quick question regarding civilian flying in the Mil from someone working on their PPL-H at a slow rate.
To fly on the civilian side, you basically just need to pass a FAA checkride to get your PPL since your hour requirements are already met and your FAA exam was taken in IFS right? Does the same work for your instrument ticket too?
To fly on the civilian side, you basically just need to pass a FAA checkride to get your PPL since your hour requirements are already met and your FAA exam was taken in IFS right? Does the same work for your instrument ticket too?
On this topic, I know of at least two double FOS on VT-shore tour. It's the first one that really matters, as if you don't select you won't get PCS orders... So you'll be able to stay where you are. Entirely possible for you to make O-4 on your shore tour too. Most of these are E-2/C-2, or even jet bros as flight school is a bit longer so you are able to FOS on your shore tour more easily. I put on LT like three months into my fleet tour with zero med down time... But a lot of other down time in the pipeline. And I still wouldn't have double FOS'd until later this year when the board results come out. Due for separation in September (MSR).
I'd say it's exceedingly rare that a double FOS would process before the eight years after wings, although I'm sure it's possible.
My info is 20 years stale, but yeah...40 hours of flight time, a sign off check ride, and you got a PPL.
BTW, all the guys I knew who had A LOT of civilian instrument time crushed it. Their biggest hurdle was behaving like a SNA and 99% figure that shit out real quick.
BTW, all the guys I knew who had A LOT of civilian instrument time crushed it. Their biggest hurdle was behaving like a SNA and 99% figure that shit out real quick.
Once you get your wings you're eligible for commercial pilot through something called military competency. You'll get commercial pilot with instrument privileges in the category and class of aircraft that you flew in flight school. That means some combination of one or more of airplane single engine land, airplane multiengine land, and rotorcraft helicopter as the case may be for your pipeline.* Search for military competency on here. There's a bunch of gouge on it.
* Sorry, no more LTAA. You were born too late.
Agreed. Your comms and general SA is going to be WAY ahead of your peers. But you better have the right attitude... Most with a lot of prior experience coming through only benefit from it. Some don't want to be taught how we do it in the Navy. The former do great and mostly get what they want, the latter not so much. All that said, there is no need to spend your money to get private flight instruction to help you get an "edge". The money is likely better in your savings or ROTH/etc.
Or beer