Doing away with IFS?

[HAL Pilot]

Not wanting to derail, but quick question regarding civilian flying in the Mil from someone working on their PPL-H at a slow rate.

To fly on the civilian side, you basically just need to pass a FAA check ride to get your PPL since your hour requirements are already met and your FAA exam was taken in IFS right? Does the same work for your instrument ticket too?

I don't think IFS is 40 hours. Plus I doubt you'd have all the other blocks checked - cross country, local solo, cross country solo, night. Probably won't have learned all the required maneuvers to the proficiency to pass the check ride either.

Wait until you are winged, go to the FSDO and get all your eligible tickets for free.

 

[cfam]

I don't think IFS is 40 hours. Plus I doubt you'd have all the other blocks checked - cross country, local solo, cross country solo, night. Probably won't have learned all the required maneuvers to the proficiency to pass the check ride either.

Wait until you are winged, go to the FSDO and get all your eligible tickets for free.

Not sure how the syllabus is currently formatted, but when I went through (2008) I got around 35 hours or so, with a local solo, cross country, cross country solo, and some night time.

 

[Python]

Not sure how the syllabus is currently formatted, but when I went through (2008) I got around 35 hours or so, with a local solo, cross country, cross country solo, and some night time.

It’s changed since then. I think like 4-6 years ago. Something like 15 hours up to first solo and then done.

 

[squorch2]

It's the first one that really matters, as if you don't select you won't get PCS orders

This isn't always true, but I'm more likely the exception that proves the rule.

 

[flgator92]

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a457331.pdf

From the Abstract of a NPS thesis looking at this very question: "Results suggest that IFS did not have an effect on the DOR rate and may have produced the undesired effect of delaying the DOR-student’s decision until later in the syllabus."

"The combined Primary DOR and FF rate, although significantly lower, did not achieve expectations. The ROI analysis was completed with both composite-pay costs and Individual Account costs. In both cases, the IFS-investment costs significantly outweighed the IFS savings resulting in a net loss and an undesirable ROI. Several alternatives were discussed as possible improvements to the current IFS program. "

 

[Jim123]

That thesis (and similar studies) might have been behind the IFS syllabus getting trimmed by more than half. It's dated 2006, when IFS was still pretty new and it was more expensive (about 40 hours including a pattern solo and a cross country solo).

 

[taxi1]

In the Spring of 99 I got my Private Pilots License prior to joining the Navy, went to OCS Aug 99, Commissioned in Nov 99, API in Feb 00, Winged July 2001 as an Ensign, Completed the FRS as an Ensign. 4 months of down time throughout the whole process, 3 of which was between OCS & API. Only 2.5 years from the the first day of OCS to the day I hit the fleet. The whole point of the timeline was to point out a few things:

I started on a PPL, got to 12 hours, having soloed and flown a bunch of solos. It was from the flying club at NAS Norfolk, so I was experienced taxiing my C-152 around C-5s. I remember looking at a C172 and thinking "big iron".

I graduated AOCS in October 85, FAM1 28 January 86 (Challenger was exploding on the Ready Room TV as I walked out the door), winged December 86 in the E2 pipeline, through the RAG by July 87. So 2 years flat from getting my AOCS haircut. Flew twice a day 6 days a week through most of T34s and all of T2s (full syllabus minus GUNs). My timing was good and I was lucky.

I remember looking at the FORM syllabus in T2s, thinking this is lengthy (17 flights). Nine days later I was done.

I left my fleet squadron having only been a LT for a few months. Showed up at the VT for an instructor tour, and just missed one of my AOCS classmates who did the jet pipeline and then SERGRAD. Separated and went into the reserves at the 7 year mark.

I still think they should evaluate glider training.

 

[taxi1]

https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a457331.pdf

From the Abstract of a NPS thesis looking at this very question: "Results suggest that IFS did not have an effect on the DOR rate and may have produced the undesired effect of delaying the DOR-student’s decision until later in the syllabus."

"The combined Primary DOR and FF rate, although significantly lower, did not achieve expectations. The ROI analysis was completed with both composite-pay costs and Individual Account costs. In both cases, the IFS-investment costs significantly outweighed the IFS savings resulting in a net loss and an undesirable ROI. Several alternatives were discussed as possible improvements to the current IFS program. "

One thing in that report (I know...2006) was concern about civilian instructors having a motivation for passing students. I was thinking they could have had civilian instructors, but then military check pilots. The FBO now has a motivation to prep their students to pass a check they don't own.

 

[Python]

I started on a PPL, got to 12 hours, having soloed and flown a bunch of solos. It was from the flying club at NAS Norfolk, so I was experienced taxiing my C-152 around C-5s. I remember looking at a C172 and thinking "big iron".

I graduated AOCS in October 85, FAM1 28 January 86 (Challenger was exploding on the Ready Room TV as I walked out the door), winged December 86 in the E2 pipeline, through the RAG by July 87. So 2 years flat from getting my AOCS haircut. Flew twice a day 6 days a week through most of T34s and all of T2s (full syllabus minus GUNs). My timing was good and I was lucky.

I remember looking at the FORM syllabus in T2s, thinking this is lengthy (17 flights). Nine days later I was done.

I left my fleet squadron having only been a LT for a few months. Showed up at the VT for an instructor tour, and just missed one of my AOCS classmates who did the jet pipeline and then SERGRAD. Separated and went into the reserves at the 7 year mark.

I still think they should evaluate glider training.

Laughably different than when I went through (10 years ago), and from what new guys are going through now (in the Tailhook world).
Fly twice a day every day? Barely an LT in your first tour? Not even close.

 

[Swanee]

My timing was good and I was lucky.

Read and heed all of you young SNAs and SNA wannabes- this is the no shit answer to all of your, "what is it like" or "what are my chances" or "how can I get..." "what is the best way to prepare" questions.

I still think they should evaluate glider training.

I earned my glider rating with Coastal Soaring Association while waiting for API in my 10 month wait to start primary during the great T-34 red stripe of 2009-2010.

It's the most fun flying I've done, and continue to do. To be honest, I'm more comfortable without an engine than with two. My onwing in primary used to tell me that I was way too comfortable when the engine failed. Meh, it's just one less thing to worry about.

 

[taxi1]

USAFA has soaring. I wonder if they have data showing correlation (good or bad) between soaring and mil aviating.

 

[Jim123]

USAFA has soaring. I wonder if they have data showing correlation (good or bad) between soaring and mil aviating.

The Luftwaffe has some data but I think it's a few decades old.

 

[Birdbrain]

If you still want some (unwarranted?) advice OP, here's my 2 cents: Study your ass off when you have things to study and during your downtime spend it more wisely than watching Netflix and playing videogames all day. I'd suggest enjoying any hobbies you have/want to have and spending time with your friends plus making new ones. You'll never have this much cash flow and freetime again to pursue your own interests.

I learned this partway through Primary. I'm a late bloomer.

 

[HAL Pilot]

They found a way to save money while still doing IFS...

 

[flgator92]

They found a way to save money while still doing IFS...

View attachment 25623

About just as useful ?.