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Europe under extreme duress

JTS11

JTS11

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pilot
Contributor
Hair Warrior said:
It’s intended for those who want to let Ukraine do whatever it wants and get whatever it wants from the US, with minimal questioning of the risks or costs. If that group overlaps with JROTC students in the venn diagram, so be it.
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The premise of your argument is...off. Nobody is arguing that. How about the West providing more air defense, so they can counter nightly terror bombings of their civilian population centers? Speak out about them executing POWs/kidnapping thousands of Ukranian children?

What risks do you speak of? Baseless nuclear saber-rattling? NATO is so scary to them that they provoked Finland to join the defensive alliance, but I don't believe they are concerned about an invasion from Helsinki.

Come on guys, jump on board with the good side. Appeasement never works. (give it 2 more weeks ad infinitum I guess, while Putin strings "peace talks" along) :rolleyes:
 
BigRed389

BigRed389

Registered User
None
JTS11 said:
The premise of your argument is...off. Nobody is arguing that. How about the West providing more air defense, so they can counter nightly terror bombings of their civilian population centers? Speak out about them executing POWs/kidnapping thousands of Ukranian children?

What risks do you speak of? Baseless nuclear saber-rattling? NATO is so scary to them that they provoked Finland to join the defensive alliance, but I don't believe they are concerned about an invasion from Helsinki.

Come on guys, jump on board with the good side. Appeasement never works. (give it 2 more weeks ad infinitum I guess, while Putin strings "peace talks" along) :rolleyes:
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Ahem. He “taps” them along according to POTUS
 
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Gatordev

Gatordev

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pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
robav8r said:
Show me the audit of U.S. taxpayer dollars to Ukraine
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The number I heard reported (in early 2024, I believe...but it might have been '23, time flies now) was that 80% of the money went to American defense/medical/support contractors and not to Ukraine. The contractors then pushed the product in-country.

Of that 20% that went to Ukraine, was some of it "corrupted?" Probably, and that's not great. But even that happens here, just in a more "legal" fashion.
 
Lawman

Lawman

Well-Known Member
None
BigRed389 said:
It’s a new dawn for SOF/Unconventional type warfare…
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It’s not new, we just don’t read history.

The SAS was doing this in Africa, it’s actually why we had the aircraft arrayed the way we did on Dec 7th.

From a risk calculus perspective right now as things amp up with China, I’d be asking a lot of questions about all those store and lock places outside of every military base, particularly the ones with big wing bomber/tanker/transports we can’t replace.
 
BigRed389

BigRed389

Registered User
None
Lawman said:
It’s not new, we just don’t read history.

The SAS was doing this in Africa, it’s actually why we had the aircraft arrayed the way we did on Dec 7th.

From a risk calculus perspective right now as things amp up with China, I’d be asking a lot of questions about all those store and lock places outside of every military base, particularly the ones with big wing bomber/tanker/transports we can’t replace.
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Oh I think most people (at least us military types) are aware of SOF roots in saboteur ops, and less of the GWOT COIN/CT focused shoot people in the face ops.

I’m saying these types of drones (and other PGMs) add something new to the toolset.
 
Lawman

Lawman

Well-Known Member
None
BigRed389 said:
Oh I think most people (at least us military types) are aware of SOF roots in saboteur ops, and less of the GWOT COIN/CT focused shoot people in the face ops.

I’m saying these types of drones (and other PGMs) add something new to the toolset.
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What bothers me is how little we talk about Red SOF in exercises.

How many times have I heard the protection cell brief the conditions for CBRN, but nobody wants to talk about the 2 numbskulls at the ECP to the AHA expected to stop a coordinated attack by people or now drones trained to be doing it.
 
BigRed389

BigRed389

Registered User
None
Lawman said:
What bothers me is how little we talk about Red SOF in exercises.

How many times have I heard the protection cell brief the conditions for CBRN, but nobody wants to talk about the 2 numbskulls at the ECP to the AHA expected to stop a coordinated attack by people or now drones trained to be doing it.
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In fairness, the last time we saw Red SOF in action during a major conflict, it looked like they were doing some pretty stupid shit like getting thrown into the meat grinder as shock troops in large scale conventional attacks?

But agreed, I wouldn’t want to hope PRC SOF would be quite so stupid.
 
Brett327

Brett327

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Super Moderator
Contributor
@Hair Warrior dude, you are either being deliberately obtuse, or cognitively dysfunctional. Why don't you ask @Flash if that's what he meant, then we can all point and laugh at you... once again.

My advice to you is to consider the audience you're addressing when posting. Most of your posts fall into the master of the obvious category, then you dig yourself a hole while doubling down on nonsense.
 
Uncle Fester

Uncle Fester

Robot Pimp
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Randy Daytona said:
A modern day Battle of Taranto ?
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That was my first reaction. The more I hear about this operation, the more “holy shit” it seems. Covert, coordinated drone strikes as far apart as Finland and Mongolia, against strategic targets. Decision makers need to be paying attention.

The US equivalent would be a coordinated Chinese strike against Elmendorf, JBLM, and Barksdale and killing about 56 B-52s, B-1s, and B-2s. EDIT: With at least a few KC-135s and AWACS also for good measure.

The Russians got got.
 
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