That carte blanche policy doesn’t take into account Russia’s redlines, international norms, or the risk of uncontrolled escalation for a country which you point out is an existential threat.
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Europe under extreme duress
- Thread starter Randy Daytona
- Start date
It is our redline.
Why can't we have a redline? You invade our fellow democratic ally and we will supply them with weapons and intel and sanction you until you stop? You invade our NATO ally and we will actual fight you directly.
@taxi1 Leaching off the American taxpayer for Europes defense has been the norm for a long time. If you want to be a true "Ally" of the United States, then put up, or shut up. I'm still waiting for an accounting and audit of all the U.S. dollars we have sent Volodymyr Zelenskyy. If Vladimir Putin is, in your estimation, such an existential threat, why isn't ALL of Europe and the rest of the free world crying foul and putting their skin in the game? I go back to Victoria Nuland, the CIA and all that occurred back in 2014.
OK, go ahead and let the flame spray begin. 🙂
I wont flame spray, because the truth is, I just kinda feel bad for you if these are your real sentiments, one quoted the other summarized:
- "Leaching off the American taxpayer..."
- Questioning whether or not Putin is, in fact, a threat...
It's always worth keeping in mind that contrarianism is not the same thing as conservatism.
- "Leaching off the American taxpayer..."
- Questioning whether or not Putin is, in fact, a threat...
It's always worth keeping in mind that contrarianism is not the same thing as conservatism.
Your brain is pickled on FoxNews and probably darker corners. I don't know where to start on the shit you posited in this post.
Didn't DOGE do a deep dive on this...haha no...that drug-addled dude did jack-shit. And no, we didn't send pallets of cash to UKR...instead weapons to a people that want to be free and be a part of the west. Europe is responding.
You seem to believe that Tucker Carlson is the truth. Hungary (poorest nation in the EU), and Moscow grocery stores are the shit, I guess.
I think @Flash highlighted your weird obsession with Nuland before...but what are you talking about?
Your brain is pickled on FoxNews and probably darker corners. I don't know where to start on the shit you posited in this post.
Didn't DOGE do a deep dive on this...haha no...that drug-addled dude did jack-shit. And no, we didn't send pallets of cash to UKR...instead weapons to a people that want to be free and be a part of the west. Europe is responding.
You seem to believe that Tucker Carlson is the truth. Hungary (poorest nation in the EU), and Moscowgrocery stores are the shit, I guess.
I think @Flash highlighted your weird obsession with Nuland before...but what are you talking about
yes sir, yes sir, three bags full. This used to be a place where different thoughts and opinions could be expressed without arrogant “My dick is bigger than yours” opinions.Your brain is pickled on FoxNews and probably darker corners. I don't know where to start on the shit you posited in this post.
Didn't DOGE do a deep dive on this...haha no...that drug-addled dude did jack-shit. And no, we didn't send pallets of cash to UKR...instead weapons to a people that want to be free and be a part of the west. Europe is responding.
You seem to believe that Tucker Carlson is the truth. Hungary (poorest nation in the EU), and Moscow grocery stores are the shit, I guess.
I think @Flash highlighted your weird obsession with Nuland before...but what are you talking about?
Again, please let me know your superior analysis of 2014, Victoria Nuland, the CIA, and everything that transpired after, wrt Russia.
Yes, Putin is bad. And the EU and the US are not helping matters. If we are serious, cut him off from all international sources of revenue. Oh, and put every piece of EU military might in Ukraine and send a message to Putin that the rest of the world is on board with the “One Team, One Fight” mentality.
Show me the audit of U.S. taxpayer dollars to Ukraine, show me the oil/gas transactions between RU and GE.
You want to end this conflict, seriously? Put a CVN or three, in the Med, put our SSBN/SSGNs within striking range of Moscow, tell the EU that EVERYONE is going to stand up and say FU to Putin and that he should withdraw and stand down, permanently.
We won’t, obviously. Because no one is truly serious about ending this disaster.
OK, your turn 🤣
You're giving off the crazy uncle at Thanksgiving dinner vibes that no one takes seriously anymore.
OK, I’m good with that. There are some tremendously intelligent, accomplished, and successful folks on this thread.
I’m not always the smartest guy in the room, but I’m not afraid to ask questions about things that I either don’t understand or things that don’t make sense to me.
If your response to my questions or inquiries is to attack my seemingly lack of understanding or proper education (compared to you), OK, again, I’m good with that.
I respect and admire all of you, every . . . single . . . one . . . of . . . you.
We should talk, educate, and mentor more.
Now, back to why USAID spent SO MUCH money on all the things they did . . . I’ll wait 😎
Usually the burden of proof is on the prosecution...
Supporting USAID programs that furthered American interests and democratic institutions is a well founded policy that has dated back several decades since it's inception. It was done during the Cold War against the USSR, counter-revolutionary elements, and non-state actors in foreign governments. It's associated with democratic peace theory and institutional liberalism. These are some of the concepts that came out of the post-World War II order that have created the United States into a superpower. A lot of USAID programs were involved in transforming fledging democratic countries into fully functioning governments by developing criminal justice systems, executive governance, health programs, economic/monetary policy, food security and commerce then integrating them into the western liberal order (RE: Democratic peace theory). That gave them the best chance to avoid turning into a tin-pot dictatorship and avoiding conflict with thier neighbors.
Now you asked why? If USAID and other NGOs weren't involved in Ukraine... then guess who would be? and guess who doesn't have our best interest in mind? Russia's modus operandi since Stalin has been to exert control over it's neighbors by keeping them divided (Caucasus, Eurasian Steppes). Have you not forgotten what it's like to be in great power competition? We're relearning all of the Cold War/Reagan-era lessons over again.
Genuinely curious, where and why are you getting your Victoria Nuland/CIA/2014 info from? Post some links.
Round and round this thread goes. Where it stops, everyone already knows.
Nah, just keep supplying UKR with weapons and intel support...Not one US soldier has been harmed in this whole thing. Great return on investment. That money is being spent within the US, replenishing our stocks.
Also, maybe actually tighten up sanctions a la the Graham-Blumenthal Senate Bill....Stop sending unqualified real estate guys like Witkoff to negotiate directly with Putin.
How does that sound?
This borders on RUS disinfo that Zelenskyy has multiple yachts in the Med. What audit are you looking for? The DoD has stated in the past that everything is tracked precisely (I'm sure you can find some low-level corruption somewhere in the process, but it would be insignificant) ...Ask Pete, I guess.
Ukraine does not have a security alliance with the US and is therefore a partner, not an ally. Ukraine did not have a bilateral security cooperation agreement with the US prior to June 13, 2024. The US provided limited security assistance from 2014 to present, expanding this assistance after the 2022 invasion.
The US still imposes limits on the weapons/ intelligence/ support it shares with Ukraine, as well as limits on their use (e.g. the distances and types of targets). It’s worthwhile to acknowledge that there should be some deliberate restraints in this 3+ year war, such as if Ukraine were to target Russia’s leadership or its nuclear triad.
Thanks for that blinding flash of the obvious. Was this post intended for a group of JROTC students?
It’s intended for those who want to let Ukraine do whatever it wants and get whatever it wants from the US, with minimal questioning of the risks or costs. If that group overlaps with JROTC students in the venn diagram, so be it.