Max the Mad Russian
Hands off Ukraine! Feet too
Nope. Ghost of Kyiv is the only one but third and fifth are probable, no confirms.
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Europe under extreme duress
- Thread starter Randy Daytona
- Start date
Have read Russia has forcibly transferred 500,000 Ukrainians into Russia. Those people may never be able to see their families or homeland again. Talk about a nightmare to be living through. They will probably be sent to Siberia to be slaves and the women into sex trafficking. Many children (about 121,000 of them children apparently) may be adopted by Russian families and never know of their true origin. One woman I read (who I don't think was kidnapped luckily) had her husband killed by the Russians, and then was raped multiple times. So I'd venture that some of these kidnapped women have seen their husbands killed in front of them, then been raped, and then abducted. Many may well be sold into sex slavery.
Hoping Russia gets its ass kicked on the Donbas front, but no one knows how that will play out. The terrain is more favorable to the Russians than were the urban areas ass it's flat open countryside, and on paper Russia has more troops than Ukraine, with more air assets in the region and artillery. On the other hand, they are going up against the most elite Ukrainian troops, and the West is sending Ukraine artillery, and Ukraine might be able to actually field a larger force in the area than the Russians as the Ukrainians have a large manpower reserve, whereas the Russians apparently do not as Russia is not on a war footing as a country, whereas all of Ukraine has been mobilized.
Hoping Russia gets its ass kicked on the Donbas front, but no one knows how that will play out. The terrain is more favorable to the Russians than were the urban areas ass it's flat open countryside, and on paper Russia has more troops than Ukraine, with more air assets in the region and artillery. On the other hand, they are going up against the most elite Ukrainian troops, and the West is sending Ukraine artillery, and Ukraine might be able to actually field a larger force in the area than the Russians as the Ukrainians have a large manpower reserve, whereas the Russians apparently do not as Russia is not on a war footing as a country, whereas all of Ukraine has been mobilized.
Max the Mad Russian
Hands off Ukraine! Feet too
In a steppes even paper numbers matter. Though over Donbass the forces are near equal, RU has air support. Namely here the air superiority is the most important thing. Almost all fame of Soviet IL-2 attack airplane stems from steppes. And more then a half of losses to Wehrmacht AA and Luftwaffe fighters as well
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Source for any of your wild speculations and accusations?
Moscow has deported 500,000 people to Russia, Ukraine lawmaker says
Moscow has deported 500,000 people from Ukraine to Russia, a leading member of the parliament in Kyiv told European lawmakers on Wednesday, calling on the Red Cross to establish contact with those missing.
No, the Ukrainians would be trumpeting it from the rooftops if that was the case as would the Russians.
Almost certainly.
Moscow has deported 500,000 people to Russia, Ukraine lawmaker says
Moscow has deported 500,000 people from Ukraine to Russia, a leading member of the parliament in Kyiv told European lawmakers on Wednesday, calling on the Red Cross to establish contact with those missing.www.reuters.com
I would be wary of a claim like that, it would be a huge logistical endeavor that would be hard to pull off in the middle of a war zone. There are likely some folks being deported but not on a scale like that.
There is ample evidence so far of Russian war crimes and atrocities I think it is better to focus on those versus those that are based on more circumstantial evidence.
So one lawmaker from a country at war made this accusation against their enemy, and...Moscow has deported 500,000 people to Russia, Ukraine lawmaker says
Moscow has deported 500,000 people from Ukraine to Russia, a leading member of the parliament in Kyiv told European lawmakers on Wednesday, calling on the Red Cross to establish contact with those missing.
"Reuters could not independently verify the figure given by Poturayev, who did not give details or supporting evidence."
And on that alone you draw a conspiracy that thousands of people are being forced into slavery in Siberia.
Let's be better than that.
A relatively minor moment of exaggeration when weighed against Russian’s avalanche of propaganda, disinformation and actual war crimes to include amongst others invading Ukraine in the first place.
Didn't your parent ever tell you that two wrongs don't make a right? And I'd hardly call accusing a country of kidnapping and enslaving half a million people a "minor moment of exaggeration".
Russia sowing disinformation doesn't give us a license to do the same. I don't know about you, but I'm a little tired of the media either having no standards (as in this case) or intentionally pushing outright lies regularly. And I'm not talking about Russian media.
Having people then regurgitate that nonsense on here makes it even worse, as we should be able to filter out that crap with common sense, as the editors at Reuters should have if they weren't happy to have a sensationalized story to run.
That’s not what you asked Random for. This source states very clearly that this claim has no verifying info beyond this guy claiming it so I don’t know what you want from the press, unless you want them to start ignoring governmental press statements.
If one person in the country claims something extreme like this, they shouldn't ignore it. They should try to verify it. Ask for details, evidence, etc. Ask other members of the govt. Ask the red cross. Do something to flesh out the story. Don't just publish outlandish claims without any due diligence and call it reporting. That's what Facebook is for. This lawmaker has every incentive to lie, after all, and common sense indicates that if 500k people are now enslaved then there would be some evidence to uncover.
The press should flesh out the facts rather than simply repeating claims, sure. But honestly, dispensing disinformation is legitimate in war. I am absolutely sure this claim is not the only "minor moment of exaggeration" by Ukraine's part. And, I totally understand and even applaud the use of a disinformation program (information warfare?) if it furthers their effort. This is not the USofA in Vietnam or Iraq. Ukraine is fighting for its very existence. Does anyone really believe the reported numbers of casualties and equipment losses is completely accurate? Yes, by Ukraine as well as Russia. After it is over, the truth will come out. If they are not open and truthful about these types of activities after they should no longer have value, that is different.
As the son of a journalist who was himself twice a wartime correspondent: nations spreading disinformation is certainly legitimate in times of war, but it is the responsibility of journalists to verify those claims.
Something like "Ukraine has reported losses of 20 tanks, but real losses are likely closer to 40" is an example of how this can be done.
This, precisely. Reuters doesn't work for the Ukrainian govt and their goal shouldn't be to spread lies on it's behalf. I completely understand why a Ukrainian lawmaker would lie.. which is why believing something they say with no other evidence is just naive, on Reuters behalf as well as Random/croaker
When the fuck did I say I believed it at face value? Show some critical thinking yourself before you come after the rest of us. Unless your point is just to argue against the Ukrainians. Your criticism is pretty one-sided in here.