CAS
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F-22 Utilized in First Combat Mission
- Thread starter Hopeful Hoya
- Start date
It won't get slow, and they don't go low. They get eaten up like crazy down there from smaller surface to air threats. I'd rather be fast an accurate, they won't be able to shoot at me that way. As far as CAS crew mentality and caring about the job- the same can be said about every TMS operating out there. That is pretty much all we've been doing for the last 13 years.
Guys, the A-10 won't survive against the threats out there anymore. It's not the magic airplane you think it is.
I always love the "what could have been" stories in aviation. I've heard from more than a few folks that have been there, done that, that this: http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/can-we-learn-something-from-the-defunct-a-7f-strikefig-1591155307 would have been the perfect platform for OEF/OIF. Big payload, long loiter time, and supersonic sprint. Could've been a contendah!
ryan1234
Well-Known Member
Sometimes there is more to fight than just enemy troops on the ground.
B-1's and MQ-9's are doing CAS now in addition to the rest of the USAF, Navy and USMC, how is the A-10 different?
Minnesota Tomcat
Turkeybeast
I have been impressed with the footage I have seen of the Raptor. I would not diss her. In some ways she could be a daughter of the F-14. Some of the lessons learned with the F-14 have been applied to this aircraft.
The F-14 has long been a favorite of mine and I do miss her. I think the Raptor could turn out to be a worthy successor as a premier fighter.
The F-14 has long been a favorite of mine and I do miss her. I think the Raptor could turn out to be a worthy successor as a premier fighter.
Every airframe eventually becomes too expensive relatively to maintain - because you eventually have to make a decision to do some serious SLEP or put that money into a new program.
However, we have put all our money in one basket and seem to not pay attention to the long loiter time weapons truck airframe.
However, we have put all our money in one basket and seem to not pay attention to the long loiter time weapons truck airframe.
Flash:
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/2...12-a-10s-to-middle-east#.VCBsLwBlGNY.facebook
I think they are still the best, most trusted, and most experienced CAS assets. They have, repeatedly, proven their usefulness in Afghanistan and Iraq. I am not a fan if the Chair Farce, but when it comes to this fight, in this AOR, I think I'd pick the A-10 over the F-35/22 every time for CAS...
Pickle
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/2...12-a-10s-to-middle-east#.VCBsLwBlGNY.facebook
I think they are still the best, most trusted, and most experienced CAS assets. They have, repeatedly, proven their usefulness in Afghanistan and Iraq. I am not a fan if the Chair Farce, but when it comes to this fight, in this AOR, I think I'd pick the A-10 over the F-35/22 every time for CAS...
Pickle
Trusted? Experienced?
If everyone paid more attention to fratricide than style points we all would probably have a different opinion. The thing looks and sounds cool yet people forget that's it's historically notorious among full time CAS players for shooting the wrong dudes.
If everyone paid more attention to fratricide than style points we all would probably have a different opinion. The thing looks and sounds cool yet people forget that's it's historically notorious among full time CAS players for shooting the wrong dudes.
They are the current record holder for Frat incidents despite the fact they are not flying the majority of the CAS missions in theatre since the 91 Gulf War. They also lead the fixed wing loss rate for aircraft in every conflict between Desert Storm and now rolled up in one group. That means that while not participating in anywhere near the sortie rate that the Viper/Hornet did they have generated higher loss rates.
We did CAS before the A-10, we do CAS during the time of the A-10 with other aircraft, we will continue to do CAS without the A-10. Just like we got on with our lives after the Tomcat, or even before that the F-4 and someday we will get by when its time to retire the Eagle or the Viper.
To the people arguing that "It can get low and slow" that is a red herring. Until it finally was dragged kicking and screaming and adopted a FLIR pod capability they were tactically limited to only flying that way. Thats not tactical superiority, thats arguing to a strength because its all you have to go off of. For all the screaming about how important that Gun is like its the deathstar with wings... most of their anti armor kills were done with the same IR/TV Maverick I can strap to any other fighter in the inventory. Running around at 5K screaming at every SA-13 on the Battlefield "come at me Bro!" is ludicrous. They were gonna do that over the Fulda, with a 48 hour expected period till they were all dead and burned up. It wasnt that they were so god damn good at CAS the Russians were afraid of them, it was "what can we make that can buy us another 12-24 hours in the face of an overwhelming mass of Armor." Not to mention that while it was built to survive the punishment of 1960s era systems like ZSU-23 everything currently being produced (Gauntlet, Greyhound, Etc) will bend it over a table titanium bathtub or no.
Part of the problem with the A-10 is that it can only do low and slow, it is very limited in where it can do it's mission and even that would be at risk if our enemies have the latest MANPADs. Its vulnerability can be an impediment to planners since it cannot operate against the latest modern air defense systems and can't utilize the latest weapons. It may do a decent job in Afghanistan and Iraq but we own the airspace there lock, stock and barrel and that will not always be the case.
The fact that it is dedicated to one mission may make it a bit better at that one particular mission but we have frankly don't have the money for those kinds of platforms anymore, especially when it can't be utilized against other threats. And when other platforms have been doing the same job for years to the same effect it calls into question the worth of a dedicated platform that is already very old and not getting any younger.
And a perspective very few on this site have and a valuable one.
Sounds like a B-1 or a B-52, both of them have been used for CAS the past decade or so. As for caring about the job you can say the same for every Marine and Army aviator and they don't fly the A-10.
Training and not the aircraft makes good CAS and reputation does not always match up with the facts as Lawman and Hotdogs point out. As for choosing an aircraft for CAS it isn't up to the folks on the ground and they will get whatever is available to include the AH-1, B-52, F-16, Tornado, AH-64, B-1, AV-8 or even an MQ-9.
Because a NASCAR fly over or airshow static display wasn't on the ATO.
I'll put my faith in who the aircrew are before the what the TMS of the asset is. Sure it's awesome to control A-10s and watch that gun ripping up a treeline full of bad guys right over your head, but given the choice, 10 of 10 times, I will take a Marine Air over anything in theater. Why? Because they "get it" better than anybody. It may sound cheesy and difficult to define, but it's real and tangible to a JTAC/FAC.
Sure, I'm a little biased, but I've also controlled almost every armed asset that flew in Afghanistan from every partner nation and employed with most of them.
/now back to your A-10 wankfest
//and they probably used F-22s for a whole lot of the reasons they wouldn't use the A-10 for
///just never let a Raptor pilot forget that his plane is an attack aircraft first (and likely for a long time)
Ive got a Viper LtCol on my team out here that brought up this very point. Over and over again it is brought up at Redflag when they put a plan together "We want the Raptor to do X" and of course there is bitching.
"Hey man we can only take like 2 bombs tops"
"Yeah Dumbass but your the only one that can take it where we need those 2 bombs, so saddle up we will chalk the Eagles to the Air fight while your busy actually doing shit."
Bet they're glad they did it now...
voodooqueen
DAR Lapsarian
Those F-22 pilots really, really want to be like you all. They have the Top Gun moussed hair, and the fancy Corvettes... They don't quite have that over the line sense of humor, though. &
(If it makes you feel any better.)
(If it makes you feel any better.)