F18 HARM shooters on 1986 Libya Raid?

[A4sForever]

...... I’d guess A4 = light and A6/F14 = medium. But I can’t think of a Navy “heavy” off the top of my cranium.
Cheers,
John

*sigh**sigh* (that's a double sigh) .... AF jocks.

In NAVAIR parlance:

Light= A-1, A-4, A-7 ...

Medium = A-6 (the one & only) ...

Heavy = A-3 or possibly A-5 Vigi in its original incarnation if you want to stretch reality a bit.

Check it: SAVE THE WHALE !!!

 

[MIDNJAC]

Wouldn't Navy heavy attack have been A-3's?

 

[Pugs]

Just curious… (really, no subtle Squid-bashing)… what would be “heavy attack” for the Navy? I’d guess A4 = light and A6/F14 = medium. But I can’t think of a Navy “heavy” off the top of my cranium

Heavy Attack (VAH squadron designation = Fixed Wing - Attack - Heavy) was the A-3 Skywarrior and for a short period the A-5 Vigilante. The Whales (e,g. A-3) became EW and Tanking platforms and the A-5's went on the become Recce platforms and the Navy got out of the Heavy Attack business circa 1971.

The "medium" attack squadrons in the A-6 took on the mantle of the nuke mission and frankly, with it able to carry 28 Mk-82's it was hardly a medium platform.

 

[phrogpilot73]

The "medium" attack squadrons in the A-6 took on the mantle of the nuke mission and frankly, with it able to carry 28 Mk-82's it was hardly a medium platform.

And I've always wondered, if it is carrying 28 Mk-82's does it have the go-juice to stay on station in a CAS role the entire time? Or would it be more of a DAS setup? Or would it be on station, drop half, tank, and drop the other half?

 

[A4sForever]

And I've always wondered, if it is carrying 28 Mk-82's does it have the go-juice to stay on station in a CAS role the entire time? Or would it be more of a DAS setup? Or would it be on station, drop half, tank, and drop the other half?

Depends what you mean by "the entire time" ... ???

If you're gonna drop one/hour .... probably not. Otherwise ....

 

[Pugs]

And I've always wondered, if it is carrying 28 Mk-82's does it have the go-juice to stay on station in a CAS role the entire time? Or would it be more of a DAS setup? Or would it be on station, drop half, tank, and drop the other half?

I'm sure others can answer but if it was like the Prowler that would give you 15.4 internal fuel with a burn average of maybe 6K an hour average at altitude .7 Mach so decent legs but with a high drag count for sure.

 

[FLYTPAY]

The "medium" attack squadrons in the A-6 took on the mantle of the nuke mission

There's more where that came from! Should've kept the Intruder around!

 

[A4sForever]

I'm sure others can answer but if it was like the Prowler that would give you 15.4 internal fuel with a burn average of maybe 6K an hour average at altitude .7 Mach so decent legs but with a high drag count for sure.

Huge drag count and BIG power goin' to and comin' off target (unless you dropped 'em all straight path) as you'd launch at almost max GW which would limit your bag of fuel operational options/time on target ... but say --- two MERs fully loaded w/ modern precision munitions w/ 2 drops ... a GREAT CAS bird, for sure.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Huge drag count and BIG power goin' to and comin' off target (unless you dropped 'em all straight path) as you'd launch at almost max GW which would limit your bag of fuel operational options/time on target ... but say --- two MERs fully loaded w/ modern precision munitions w/ 2 drops ... a GREAT CAS bird, for sure.

So if you were getting (average) 7 minutes per TOT, and dropping 2 per - then you probably wouldn't have the gas to stay on station to go Winchester, would you? Assuming the 28xMk-82 that is.

 

[Harrier Dude]

You're not going to have a great Pk with two dumb bombs, generally. You'd be better served with dropping 4-8 per pass, depending on the target.

A4s has it right.......more PGMs and less overall bombs would be more effective with less drag, more fuel, and better TOS.

 

[A4sForever]

So if you were getting (average) 7 minutes per TOT, and dropping 2 per - then you probably wouldn't have the gas to stay on station to go Winchester, would you? Assuming the 28xMk-82 that is.

Well, I don't have a NATOPS anymore nor the ability to run the numbers ... but I'm gonna say "NO" based on your hypothetical. Plus, I don't know the requirements for a modern CAS scenario so it's hard to speak directly to them -- some of the acronyms leave me w/ my mouth hangin' open and a finger in one ear ...

We just liked to drop bombs.

The 28xMk-82 concept was basically for the original "shock & awe" before anyone had thought up the term ... go in w/ an ALPHA Strike and drop 'em all or go in low at night, single ship and drop 'em all -- one pass only. The first time the A-6 was employed w/ big bomb loads and made several runs on the target (defended target), the results were disastrous.

The bird was really a hog w/ all that weight onboard -- tactical maneuvering was do-able, but not easy to be smooth and precise, especially at altitude -- it took a bit to get her up "on the step". Maintaining position in formation was a group effort -- some were pulling power, others were MAX EGT. . Can you imagine how hard it was on the Fruit-Fly drivers .... ??? That's an A-7 ....

 

[DanMa1156]

Quick question: What are PGMs?

 

[Delta7]

*sigh**sigh* (that's a double sigh) .... AF jocks.

In NAVAIR parlance:

Light= A-1, A-4, A-7 ...

Medium = A-6 (the one & only) ...

Heavy = A-3 or possibly A-5 Vigi in its original incarnation if you want to stretch reality a bit.

Check it: SAVE THE WHALE !!!

A4sForever,

Speaking of “heavy,” how about the F-8 Crusader… wouldn’t that qualify as heavy? Or am I going back too far.

The comments about the Vigilante made me think of that other, rather large USN airplane. One of my all-time-favorite arrival show/ war-/sea-story involved a French Navy Crusader.

There I was… doing an air show (static and air) at a French AF base in Mulhouse, France (circa 1987) in an F-111F. In his awe-inspiring arrival show, this Crusader flies down the runway, inverted, about 50 feet, and just below mach. He pulls up to a rather distant downwind (can’t say as I blame him), still inverted, put his “gear up,” finishes configuring (I assume), turns final, rolls over just before touching down and blowing both main tires and departing the runway!!!!!

No injuries, and the jet didn’t seem too worse for wear. The French left the airplane on the side of the runway for the entire air show weekend.

Ahhh, those were the days.

Cheers,
John

PS. I'll see your **double sigh** a raise you a guffaw

 

[A4sForever]

Quick question: What are PGMs?

Magic. Pure fuckin' magic, that's what they are ...

Precision Guided Munitions, a.k.a. Smart bombs ...

 

[Harrier Dude]

Quick question: What are PGMs?

Precision Guided Munitions.

This encompasses Laser Guided Bombs (LGBs such as GBU-12/10/16), Laser Guided Missles (AGM-65), and GPS guided bombs (JDAM/JSOW......GBU-38/36 et al).

They're all PGMs.