FAA Military Equivalency Test

[HH-60H]

FYI: Helo wingers no longer get Instrument-Airplane.

Why not?

 

[MasterBates]

When I winged you got all your Instrument Airplane/SEL stuff as long as it had been within 12 months.

 

[BACONATOR]

Why not?

Because the FARs changed and it now reads that to get a civilian rating, you must have received an instrument rating in the military aircraft type (which means NATOPS instrument checkride). Since we only do a "checkride" in primary, and don't get an instrument rating out of it, we don't get a civilian instrument rating anymore.

Basically: Civilian instrument rating is granted for whatever instrument ratings you have in the Navy. Helo pilots are only instrument rated in helicopters and thus only get a helicopter instrument civilian rating.

So I got my airplane commercial, but no instrument rating.

 

[HAL Pilot]

figured this thread would suffice to post this question.

first off, I've never flown private & I know very little about private flying & renting planes, so I'm gonna show my ignorance with this question...

second, I want to keep my studying of "gouge" & test taking to a minimum...

so, if I go ahead and get my ATP, can I rent a plane (after I get checked out in it)? or will I still need to do the mil comp to commerical thing to get my SEL & MEL centerline restriction to fly private?

thanks...

SF

Jarhead,
I might be wrong, but I think that with respect to a "pilot" certificate, very little has changed (other than the 12 month rule).
So,... getting the CFI certificate won't help.
You must still get a pilot certificate. The easiest was is to do the Mil Comp.
If you are a Hornet pilot, you can get a your Commercial Airplane Multi Engine Land (limited to centerline thrust). With that, you can go rent a multi engine airplane.
You cannot rent a Cessna 172, or any other single engine airplane. At least not until you go find someone to issue you the rating via a few flights and a checkride. (HAL, am I saying this right?)

You're mostly right. He needs to do the milcomp test to get the rating you described. However, regardless of what aircraft he wants to fly Cessna-150 all the way up to a multi-engine anything, he'll need to do a checkflight. I've been to FBOs that merely required an hour and a half flight with a CFI in a -172 that allowed me to rent their -150/-152/-172. My local FBO here in Quantico wants me to take 3 different tests and do basically a private pilot checkride to all PTS standards.

When you take your ATP, you take it either in a multi (normally) or single engine airplane. The ATP will then give you all the privileges of any license in that category. I.e. a multi airplane ATP lets you do everything a private or commercial multi pilot can do plus more.

The ATP is also by definition an instrument rating. So you get that too.

If you take an ATP, there is no reason to take the mil competency exam unless you are doing it for a different category. I.e. You have an ATP multi engine and you take the mil competency to get your commercial single engine.

Also, if you are a Hornet driver who did the mil comp to get a commercial multi license with the center line thrust limitation, taking the ATP multi would eliminate that limitation (which in the real world had made your comm ticket worthless..)

Huggy is right except remember there are very few centerline thrust multis in the civilian world (Cessna 336 Skymaster push-me/pull-you is the only one I can think of) to rent. If you had flown the T-34 within the required time frame (not sure but I think the time frame limits going away) when you take the mil comp, they would give you a comm single ticket too so you could then rent those. Both these would have instrument ratings because even if you never took an instrument ride in the T-34 (Otto's example), you have in the Hornet. Completion of a multi instrument rating gives you instruments for both multi and single if you hold both tickets at the time of issuance (but not vice-versa - has to do with multi engine planes doing single engine approaches).

Huggy is talking strictly FARs. Boomer then gets into rental company policy. The rental company requirements are usually stricter than the FAA's and are usually insurance driven. Checkouts vary by FBO. Boomer is describing the strictest I have ever heard. If you have previous time in the plane, most places I've gone required 3 landings, a stall or 2 and slow flight. Maybe an hour in the air, quick discussion on the systems and good to go.

 

[jarhead]

....answers......

thanks bud, I believe that answered my question... I plan on getting my ATP multi-engine... so if I plan on renting single engine planes, I still need to take the mil comp to get a commercial SEL to fly those ... is that correct?

SF

 

[HAL Pilot]

thanks bud, I believe that answered my question... I plan on getting my ATP multi-engine... so if I plan on renting single engine planes, I still need to take the mil comp to get a commercial SEL to fly those ... is that correct?

SF

Yes

 

[C420sailor]

How far do they dig looking for that NATOPS instrument ride? That sucks that it's such a massive PITA to get an Instrument equivalency.

 

[BACONATOR]

How far do they dig looking for that NATOPS instrument ride? That sucks that it's such a massive PITA to get an Instrument equivalency.

When you bring your logbook in to the DE for the paperwork (which is all of 10 minutes), he simply looks for your T-34 stamp to be within 12 months, and then checks your NATOPS instrument rating stamp (which you'll only get in advanced) and then fills out the paperwork accordingly. No stamp? No instrument rating. They don't check the logbook for the checkride entry itself, just that the Navy stamped your logbook with a date entry for granting you an instrument rating in your given category of aircraft. Simple as that.

It's really dumb since we have a competent proficiency in fixed wing IFR flying and even got a checkride in it, but semantics dictates it must be a NATOPS checkride. We can still apply all our civilian (IFS for those who did it) and Primary fixed wing time toward our instrument rating, so you would need to do minimal training and probably just an instrument checkride in a cessna to do it. Stupid that we need to, but minimal ass-pain involved, given the situation.

 

[insanebikerboy]

When you bring your logbook in to the DE for the paperwork (which is all of 10 minutes), he simply looks for your T-34 stamp to be within 12 months, and then checks your NATOPS instrument rating stamp (which you'll only get in advanced) and then fills out the paperwork accordingly. No stamp? No instrument rating. They don't check the logbook for the checkride entry itself, just that the Navy stamped your logbook with a date entry for granting you an instrument rating in your given category of aircraft. Simple as that.

It's really dumb since we have a competent proficiency in fixed wing IFR flying and even got a checkride in it, but semantics dictates it must be a NATOPS checkride. We can still apply all our civilian (IFS for those who did it) and Primary fixed wing time toward our instrument rating, so you would need to do minimal training and probably just an instrument checkride in a cessna to do it. Stupid that we need to, but minimal ass-pain involved, given the situation.

I'm curious, was there a recent change in the FAR's for that? Considering they issued me my fixed wing instrument a couple of years ago, I would think there would need to be an actual law change instead of just at the whim of the examiner.

 

[BACONATOR]

I'm curious, was there a recent change in the FAR's for that? Considering they issued me my fixed wing instrument a couple of years ago, I would think there would need to be an actual law change instead of just at the whim of the examiner.

As I've posted a couple times, YES. There has been a recent change. I know it since the FAA guy told me as such, and every winger I've talked to (myself included) hasn't gotten the instrument airplane rating.

 

[insanebikerboy]

As I've posted a couple times, YES. There has been a recent change. I know it since the FAA guy told me as such, and every winger I've talked to (myself included) hasn't gotten the instrument airplane rating.

Ah, my bad, missed your last post on it. Thanks.