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Fallen Angels - Admin Seps for all?

gotta_fly said:
This doesn't exactly make sense, if the Navy is getting the money back why does it matter how much they've invested so far?
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Maybe Big Navy really does have a heart and doesn't want to stick us with $150,000 bills? Just speculating/stirring the pot. It sounds like BS to me.

Back when I was a freshman (2004) I remember hearing rumors of aviation ENS's being offered cold hard cash to get out. Any truth to that?
 
gotta_fly said:
This doesn't exactly make sense, if the Navy is getting the money back why does it matter how much they've invested so far?
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The reason the Navy cares is because they CAN'T get the money back. The only reason you have to repay the Navy for your education is if you don't complete your agreed upon term of service, through misconduct or voluntarily leaving. Period.

So, if they decide they need to admin sep Ensigns that came from USNA or NROTC, they AREN'T getting their money back. Unless they offer one of those individuals to revert to enlisted (maintaining their term of service) and they turn it down. Then it would be voluntarily leaving.

My gay class president left the Naval Academy voluntarily AFTER he had signed his 2-for-7 agreement. Total cost he repaid? $0

Trust me, they know that they will be embroiled in lawsuits and will lose every single one (if they try and get NROTC/USNA guys to repay their education) - that's why NROTC and USNA guys will have priority.
 
gatordev said:
I would guess because he got all averages or less. You can be a straight "Average" pilot and not wing because you need so many "Aboves" to meet the minimum GPA. It's not the MPTS system.

I know one or two folks I got winged with were sweating that in the HTs. As it turned out, they had no reason to, but everyone wanted to make sure they at least had the minimum number of Aboves to wing.
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Just to clarify the point: you are saying that there is no minimum NSS with MPTS. That's the belief that I have (since I haven't found anything to say that having a low NSS is grounds for attrition) with the MPTS. For those non-IPs, let me expand on that...

With the old system the criteria for passing/failing was how well you did compared to your peers. Therefore the bottom slice of pilots could be attrited. With MPTS, the criteria for passing is not how you compare to others, but how you compare to the standardized requirements (aka "making MIF"). If one makes MIF by the end of block, but didn't have any greater-than-MIF scores and perhaps only made MIF on the very last flight, then his/her NSS would be pretty low for that block. However, he/she is still passing. Therefore by the time selection rolls around, the student has passed primary but has a very low NSS because of his/her performance compared to the peers. This next part is simply my theory...

There should be the same number of high scores (think 60s and 70s) that there are low scores (20s and low 30s). Why doesn't this happen? My guess is that the grades of those that attrite still count toward the squadron average. Therefore, because they were doing bad, they bring the whole squadron's score down per block. Since they fail out and don't make it to selection, their statistically crappy scores never get seen. Hence, it's rare but definitely possible to have a student struggle through but still pass and end up with a 20-something NSS.

*I should have read what FlyBoyd wrote before writing this. Oops.
 
kmac said:
Just to clarify the point: you are saying that there is no minimum NSS with MPTS. That's the belief that I have (since I haven't found anything to say that having a low NSS is grounds for attrition) with the MPTS. For those non-IPs, let me expand on that...
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Correct. I know we had a minimum score that would trigger a review board (it was 35 in VT-6 during my tenure), but that didn't mean they were attrited. One of my last onwings caught up in that. He was graduated, albeit w/ a low NSS, but went on to crush HTs.
 
So what if you attrited and they said sorry no room anywhere else. Could you go Blue to Green to complete your obligation or avoid paying back the money. Would they really offer you to go to bootcamp?
 
OttoWrote8 said:
Have you been attrited? If so, then maybe someone can answer you. If not, then do you plan on it? If not, then who cares? Keep your eyes on the prize and stop wondering what if, what if.
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Chill out dude. I doubt he's planning on getting attrited. He's just wondering how things work; trying to get some knowledge. He asked in a relatively educated manner, and it wasn't a "what % get jets" question, so I back it.

For the record, I know (second hand) of at least one guy who was given the option to go to the green side at some point in flight training, and took it. He ended up getting winged, then went to TBS (not boot camp), then the RAG. I think he was in Alpha Company 07.
 
pourts said:
For the record, I know (second hand) of at least one guy who was given the option to go to the green side at some point in flight training, and took it. He ended up getting winged, then went to TBS (not boot camp), then the RAG. I think he was in Alpha Company 07.
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One of our Marine instructors at the Academy told us about that option, but I think it was only for people that wanted to lat transfer to the Marines and made it successfully through flight training, not people that attrited. Like you said, it was get winged first, then go to TBS. Any Marines know what the process is for blue to green once winged?
 
There was a guy from my old ROTC unit that switched while he was in A-pool. Story was that he got stashed w/ the Blues, and after 6+ months of sitting around w/o any sign of classing up, he went green since they were classing folks up almost immediately at that point. I believe he did TBS between wings and the RAG.
 
Bump.

Anyone know what they're doing with attrites and DORs from advanced right now? If you redes to SWO/intel/whatever, do you still owe the years on your aviation contract (8) or ____?
 
incubus852 said:
Bump.

Anyone know what they're doing with attrites and DORs from advanced right now? If you redes to SWO/intel/whatever, do you still owe the years on your aviation contract (8) or ____?
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You wouldnt owe 8 if you don't finish advanced. Remember, that 8 year commitment starts the day you get designated as a Naval Aviator.
 
The way it's working nowadays: "have fun in CIVLANT" is an option for anyone who has flunked out, DOR'ed, etc, who the Skipper doesn't think is worth re-des'ing. USNA, OCS, ROTC, doesn't matter. Whether you have to pay back education costs is between you and the DoN. Nobody's "bulletproof," and no one's an auto-separate.
 
Right now they're having you submit redesignation packages, but again it's up to them whether they keep you or not. My roommate recently attrited and she's submitting the paperwork (even has to give her college transcript), but she has no idea what's going to happen. She just knows she's going to be here for a couple more months until she finds out.
 
They're seriously just giving DOR's walking papers? There's a few DORs here in advanced and for whatever reason they decided to do it, I'm just curious where they're heading.
 
I have a buddy that I went to Junior High/High School with who graduated from the Academy in 04 and was an SNA. He got an 84 on his NAV test in API and they gave him the option of changing communities or running with his free education. He got out and got into real estate and did really well for himself down in San Diego.
 
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