Fidelity up, Obedience Down: Pothead kicked off Football Team

[bigwill2876]

Utopia is great but reality is what drives the real world.

Harvard/Yale will take a football player that has below the average GPA/SAT/ACT scores than the rest of the incoming class...and if the Parent/s make below a certain amount (85K IIRC or maybe 65 ?) the full "academic" scholarship kicks in for the entire 4 years.

"Taxpayers" argument is really stale, plus Hoops, Bases, Crew, Track/Field, Hockey, Lacrosse, need athletes and they just don't walk in the door and ask for sneaks, glove, boat, shoes, ice skates, sticks, etc. ALL of those things are paid for thru the football programs receipts, not the "taxpayer"

 

[PropAddict]

ALL of those things are paid for thru the football programs receipts, not the "taxpayer"

I've always thought this to be a rather specious argument. I mean, if college-level football is so much of a cash cow, why are we still pretending these professional college athletes are students at all?

If there is so much money to be made, why not make NCAA a farm league where guys go right after high school to prep for the NFL big time, without the pesky pretense of studying? Sure, they'll need other jobs to support themselves, but they can sling fries at McD's; probably be less demanding on them than school anyway.

I counter that all the tax dollars coming in to build stadium/facilities and the bits of tuition money taken from paying students are major elements in the NCAA football profit model. "Profit" is only relative to other expenditures, e.g. "We spend $X dollars on the Physics department and get nothing spendable back. We drop $Y dollars on the football team and get $Z back that we can use to buy things. Football is saving the university budget!" When in fact, Z is less than total Y put in.

 

[insanebikerboy]

ALL of those things are paid for thru the football programs receipts, not the "taxpayer"

You're forgetting one huge thing. Boosters/alumni donations. At most, if not all, big name schools, including USNA, private donations from former alumni and supporters pays for a helluva lot of all of those things.

 

[bigwill2876]

All of the current/new Yard upgrades and new buildings have been paid for by NAAA or Foundation dollars, which exist because of Intercollegiate Athletes. Mainly the football programs of the school is dragging out the dollars from somebodies wallet. Look around the Yard and NMCS, were those dollars given when NAVY sucked or when we BEAT down Army and Zoomies for YEARS in a row.

In your utopia of a minor league football league/s similar to hockey or baseball only one problem.....$ to Univ and NCAA.

Look at the current upheaval in Conferences, only one thing is driving that ...NOT academic excellence of Nebraska to join the Big 10 and the CIC, or Colorado because they want to get some surfing in while at USC/UCLA....$ for tv $

 

[phrogpilot73]

Look around the Yard and NMCS, were those dollars given when NAVY sucked or when we BEAT down Army and Zoomies for YEARS in a row.

Ummm, Yes.

Navy-Marine Corps Memorial Stadium has been totally renovated over the previous four years and transformed into a state-of-the-art multi-use facility hosting Navy football and lacrosse as well as a myriad of other local, regional, national and international events. The $40M project was started in the summer of 2002 and was completed in the fall of 2004.

So the year the project was started, Navy must have been kicking ass, right? At least by your logic. Nope. 2-10.

You're right, Alumni contribute a mere pittance. It's all the ever present-ever dominant Div IA football team that is only really successful because of the schedule they play. But look around. See all the class crests? Guess where the NAAA and NAF fuding is actually coming from? Who buys season tickets? Alumni. Who joins the Blue & Gold (and some pay $1000/year)? Alumni. Guess who was buying the same season tickets when Navy sucked? Alumni.

Think I'm full of shit? I've had season tickets to Navy since I was six years old. My Dad's class of '63, and still buys his season tickets - whether they suck or not. So do his classmates. And the class of '76 (where my tickets are). You're full of shit.

Oh, and this chart shows that a good chunk of the NAF comes from just alumni. When you add in corporate sponsors, non-alumni gifts, etc... 25% is a pretty decent chunk.
http://www.usna.com/admin/view.image?id=28850

 

[CommodoreMid]

Ummm, Yes.


So the year the project was started, Navy must have been kicking ass, right? At least by your logic. Nope. 2-10.

You're right, Alumni contribute a mere pittance. It's all the ever present-ever dominant Div IA football team that is only really successful because of the schedule they play. But look around. See all the class crests? Guess where the NAAA and NAF fuding is actually coming from? Who buys season tickets? Alumni. Who joins the Blue & Gold (and some pay $1000/year)? Alumni. Guess who was buying the same season tickets when Navy sucked? Alumni.

Think I'm full of shit? I've had season tickets to Navy since I was six years old. My Dad's class of '63, and still buys his season tickets - whether they suck or not. So do his classmates. And the class of '76 (where my tickets are). You're full of shit.

Oh, and this chart shows that a good chunk of the NAF comes from just alumni. When you add in corporate sponsors, non-alumni gifts, etc... 25% is a pretty decent chunk.
http://www.usna.com/admin/view.image?id=28850

Just to add on to that, for alumni of any school who care enough, it doesn't matter how well the team does in terms of their support. Hands down, if I were in a position where I could make the Vandy football games, damn right I would be a season ticket holder, and everyone knows how excellent Vandy football is.

 

[bigwill2876]

Since I was playing at NMCS when you were six years old, I am happy that you were able to purchase season tickets at that age and have continued to attend games.

NAAA, stands for Naval Academy Athletic Association, and Foundation for Naval Academy Foundation which are mostly Alumni or Alumni/Current Parents persons.

Excellence in football propels many things at each University, not the least fund raising/giving and media attention, in the case of the Midshipman dismissed bad media (and would we have heard of this if he was on some club team ?), but mostly good, like winning the Commander In Chief Trophy and 8 Beat Army WINS in a row and the ending of the curse of South Bend.

Perhaps you can check with Chet when you renew your season tickets, "Chet, is it easier to sell season tickets, and find people to donate to the USNA Athletic Department when we were bad or when we are good ?"

Furthermore, you should try to exercise a modicum of civility.

So a Commodore, here, my Dad coached at Vandy, I learned how to swim in their indoor pool.

Oldest Son played a game there once, I noted the little holes in the cement floor that some people used to hold their spit cuts.....Yucky

 

[Daisy]

I love Vandy, as well. It's a an excellent university with a great on-campus NROTC program (Duke, too, btw.) Nashville is an amazing city - extremely cool.

bigwill2876's understanding of financial aid and alumni funding of student tuitions, regardless of athletic status, at Harvard-Yale and peer universities is inaccurate. FWIW.

 

[bigwill2876]

Three generations of ALL the males in my family have attended/graduated from Universities with their BA/BS without paying ANY tuition/room/board/fees/books....so we/I may have some understanding of the process. Only one was from a Service Academy. My Great Uncle was President of Board of Trustees of an Ivy League University.

The latest athletic capital improvements at The Yard and nearby were funded not by taxpayer monies, but by donations, and income from USNA athletic programs (mostly from football) check "Shipmate" magazine for the long list of donors.

Harvard has the largest endowment of any USA University and ANYONE going to Harvard is eligible for financial aid depending on their Parent's income statement. IIRC either 65 or 85 K is the point where the student is given FULL scholarships for the 4 years at Harvard. (adjusted every year for possible changes in the Parents income)((this excludes the $2,500 that they work off with internships of some type or summer work on campus.)) My Father has his Master's Degree from Harvard, ...that he had to pay for...

A point for trivia fans is that Harvard has the largest amount of intercollegiate athletic teams in the US at any NCAA level of competition. More trivia; kids with perfect scores in SAT/ACT do get rejected to Harvard.