Fight's On! The origins of TOPGUN and dogfights back in the day/future prospects

[Catmando]

The Germans in WWII did some interesting G-force testing related to their Junkers Ju 87 dive-bombers. In fact G-induced black-out was so common from their up to 80 degree dive bombing runs, they incorporated an automatic 6G pullout mechanism on bomb release, just in case the pilot became incapacitated.

Their studies early in the war found that the highest load a pilot could endure was 8.5 g for three seconds. Under 4 Gs, there were no visual problems, but above about 6G, 50% of the pilots "grayed out." Above 7.5 Gs, 40% lost vision altogether, and "blackout sometimes occurred."

(There is no mention of time duration or seat angle. And I don't think they had anti-G suits either. But the Luftwaffe were working on an articulating and reclining seat, and some of their people ended up in the US post war, to continue working on the problem.)

 

[C420sailor]

Their studies early in the war found that the highest load a pilot could endure was 8.5 g for three seconds. Under 4 Gs, there were no visual problems, but above about 6G, 50% of the pilots "grayed out." Above 7.5 Gs, 40% lost vision altogether, and "blackout sometimes occurred."

Did they use an AGSM back then? If I don't get my squeeze on, I start to gray out at a smidge over 4G. In a split-S, going from -1 to +4, the lights go out almost completely. I guess I need to eat more red meat and drink more beer...

 

[BarrettRC8]

Did they use an AGSM back then? If I don't get my squeeze on, I start to gray out at a smidge over 4G. In a split-S, going from -1 to +4, the lights go out almost completely. I guess I need to eat more red meat and drink more beer...

Get into the gym.

 

[nittany03]

Push-pull effect: your body begins to acclimate itself to the negative g, then you suddenly schwack on the positive g. Then your body goes "WTF?I wasn't ready!"

 

[HeyJoe]

Push-pull effect: your body begins to acclimate itself to the negative g, then you suddenly schwack on the positive g. Then your body goes "WTF?I wasn't ready!"

That's why bananas for breakfast is recommended until you get used to regular encounters with + and - G.

 

[yak52driver]

That's why bananas for breakfast is recommended until you get used to regular encounters with + and - G.

Does the potassium help with the -/+ G swing? I haven't read about that before.

 

[warface]

need to eat more red meat and drink more beer...

Is that really the best thing to do to increase your G-tolerance? If it is, then I will integrate this into my diet so I'll be prepared.

 

[HeyJoe]

Is that really the best thing to do to increase your G-tolerance? If it is, then I will integrate this into my diet so I'll be prepared.

Getting into gym might help a bit more

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Does the potassium help with the -/+ G swing? I haven't read about that before.

Banana's aren't supposed to be as nasty to throw up

 

[HeyJoe]

Banana's aren't supposed to be as nasty to throw up

They taste the same going down and coming up.

 

[yak52driver]

Banana's aren't supposed to be as nasty to throw up

There is a great Blue Angel ride story that a Sports Illustrated reporter wrote (at least in the internet version I read) where the #7 pilot tells the reporter to eat bananas for breakfast because they taste about the same coming up as they did going down.

 

[Swanee]

They taste the same going down and coming up.

So does peanut butter, just make sure it's the creamy kind, not chunky.



The old man tells me that the seat in the F-16 was put in that position because that was the only way it would freaking fit. (Same with why the canopy is backwards) The added G Tolerance from that position was really an added bonus but didn't have anything to do with the design of the airplane. He could be feeding me a line of bull, but it makes enough sense.

 

[C420sailor]

Get into the gym.

I've been lifting heavy for years, but I also do a ton of cardio. I know the cardio isn't helping things, but I'll hold off on cutting that out for as long as possible.

 

[Treetop Flyer]

I've been lifting heavy for years, but I also do a ton of cardio. I know the cardio isn't helping things, but I'll hold off on cutting that out for as long as possible.

If youre in halfway decent shape and are getting significant light loss at 4 G's then your AGSM is probably lacking. Technique can be improved, and if you get jets the centrifuge helps a lot to learn how to do it right.

 

[blackbart22]

Durationis a big player in G tolerance. When we wrote the QF-86H NATOPS supplement to the F-86H Dash One, we limited the remote controler to 720 degrees of turn at 5 Gs, since the guy pulling them didn't feel them. I could only grunt so long