Flight School backed up

[ChuckMK23]

You’re old.

I know!

 

[jollygreen07]

You bring up a lot of good points. I'm not denying that COPT-R presents a lot of challenges, many of which we can't fully predict right now. Any new program always does.

The bottom line is that while it's not perfect, COPT-R is the only solution we have right now to take some of the load off the T-6. The problem's gotten big enough that ignoring it isn't an option anymore. Believe it or not, nothing is being said on here that wasn't said in the N7 office at CNATRA when we were discussing COPT-R. To paraphrase Winston Churchill, "[COPT-R] is the worst [solution] except for all those other [solutions]..."

Like I said before, if someone on here has a better solution I know for a fact that CNATRA and CNAF would really appreciate your input.

Yeah man, I get it. I applaud your enthusiasm for your program. I see many changes coming for my little corner of CNATRA in the near future, too.

 

[FlyNavy03]

@FlyNavy03 looks like the Army has decided to pull trigger on a trial program for Initial Entry Rotary Wing pilot training. Peeling a volunteer group from starting flight school in the H145/UH-72 Lakota and diverting them to University of North Dakota to do a syllabus in the turbine R66, then return to Ft Novesel and joining their peers in advanced stage syllabus.

That makes all services engaged in "trying something else.."

Yep. The Air Force actually started it with CAE in Dothan flying the Bell 505, but I will not share my thoughts on that program here.

 

[Mouselovr]

I recall things being similar- at some point it went from “no brown footwear for you, shitstain!”, to, “Why the F aren’t you wearing brown boots?!”

I think the switch was sometime in advanced. I was wearing brown boots when I went to the ship for the first time. In the FRS I wouldn’t have been caught dead in black boots. I still don’t own any.

There's been a similar and recent development with respect to the leather jacket.

When it was issued to us in NIFE, we were told under no circumstance can you wear it until you wing.
A little over a year ago, Rear Admiral Brophy, CNATRA himself, saw an ENS on watch in Corpus wearing a different jacket. When the ENS explained what we had all been told at NASC, a command wide email was sent out to multiple wings stating ALL snas could wear leather jackets.

I still now confuse ensigns as IPs checking in from NASC in leather jackets.....

 

[FlyNavy03]

There's been a similar and recent development with respect to the leather jacket.

When it was issued to us in NIFE, we were told under no circumstance can you wear it until you wing.
A little over a year ago, Rear Admiral Brophy, CNATRA himself, saw an ENS on watch in Corpus wearing a different jacket. When the ENS explained what we had all been told at NASC, a command wide email was sent out to multiple wings.

I still now confuse ensigns as IPs checking in from NASC in leather jackets.....

There are some guys who get really butthurt over "unqualified" people wearing the leather jacket. I think way back in the day they didn't even issue it until winging, but I may be wrong. Maybe @ChuckMK23 could tell us.

Fun fact - I never put any patches on my leather jacket so I could wear it in or out of uniform. It's still my daily wear when the weather turns cold.

 

[Randy Daytona]

Again, you're not wrong. For what it's worth, almost all COPT-R flights are 1.0 so the 50 hours does represent more individual sorties - dealing with civilian controllers in an extremely busy airspace where people don't have a script to follow like at Corpus and Whiting - than 50 hours in the VTs or HTs.

Also, like I said, no one here is breaking any new ground with their concerns. Everything is subject to the butterfly effect. Everyone is aware of the extra challenges that may go into COPT-R students making HAC. Yes, 20 hours in fleet aircraft is more expensive, but it also means they'll have 20 extra hours of experience in model and 70 more hours in type when they're up for HAC. Good trade off? Maybe or maybe not. We're considering other solutions for the HAC question, too, but each of those also brings its own suitcase full of pros and cons. I promise that none of these decisions are being taken lightly or made impulsively.

I was texting with my old flight school roommates and fleet buds and opinions are mixed. (BTW, as you get older and retire, make an effort to stay in touch - you will want to when you get our age) Although the money saved will garner the bigger headlines, the more important issue is the reduced time to train. Are the delays a shortage of instructors or a shortage of aircraft?

Something has to change. The defense budget is approaching $1 trillion, yet the fleet and flying hours are shrinking. I would imagine everything is on the table.

 

[taxi1]

There are some guys who get really butthurt over "unqualified" people wearing the leather jacket. I think way back in the day they didn't even issue it until winging, but I may be wrong. Maybe @ChuckMK23 could tell us.

Fun fact - I never put any patches on my leather jacket so I could wear it in or out of uniform. It's still my daily wear when the weather turns cold.

We were issued ours in AOCS and wore it everywhere. 1985

 

[Griz882]

We were issued ours in AOCS and wore it everywhere. 1985

Yes, in 1986 it was issued at AOCS and the leather name tag was a naval officer insignia (or Marines/CG) with name and that oh so delicious rank…ENS. I wore mine all the time. At the same time, however, brown shoes were not an option.

 

[ChuckMK23]

There are some guys who get really butthurt over "unqualified" people wearing the leather jacket. I think way back in the day they didn't even issue it until winging, but I may be wrong. Maybe @ChuckMK23 could tell us.

Fun fact - I never put any patches on my leather jacket so I could wear it in or out of uniform. It's still my daily wear when the weather turns cold.

Summer 1986 upon arrival at NASC Pensacola as an Ensign. First week check in once classed up for what was then called API, you were given an appointment with flight gear issue. Issue included:

G-1 Flight Jacket
2 Flight Suits
1 x Gloves
1x HGU-33 helmet and mic assembly
1 knee board
1 survival knife
1 J- Shroud Cutter
1 pair boots
1 Flyers Kit Bag
1 Helmet Bag

You were directed to order name tags with NEX .

NO restrictions on G-1 wear, and it was a non issue because quite frankly the weather didn't require a jacket until maybe January. And the G1 was overkill. Rolled down sleeves were usually sufficient.

Completely a non issue.

 

[taxi1]

brown shoes

In the reserves, I packed up my kit to fly out to Pt Mugu for my first drill weekend in my new unit. I had two pair, and I grabbed the nicer of the two. First impressions and all.

Unpacking in the BOQ, I saw that I had the left shoe of each pair.

After that weekend I had three pairs of brown shoes.

 

[FlyNavy03]

I was texting with my old flight school roommates and fleet buds and opinions are mixed. (BTW, as you get older and retire, make an effort to stay in touch - you will want to when you get our age) Although the money saved will garner the bigger headlines, the more important issue is the reduced time to train. Are the delays a shortage of instructors or a shortage of aircraft?

Something has to change. The defense budget is approaching $1 trillion, yet the fleet and flying hours are shrinking. I would imagine everything is on the table.

The delays are being caused by a lot of things but not lack of IPs. There are more pilots going to shore tours than production jobs to take them.

As far as the equipment goes, there are supply chain issues with parts for the T-6, which was causing a backup in production. Buying new T-6s isn't possible. To top it off, the T-45 is going to have to be in service for a lot longer than planned so some flights from the advanced jet syllabus are now being pushed to the T-6, which is only exacerbating the problem.

 

[Gatordev]

@FlyNavy03 Personally I wouldn't ask you to publicly defend the program that you're in charge of, as that's not fair to you. The fact that you're coming here to give some first hand knowledge is appreciated. That said...

We're considering other solutions for the HAC question, too, but each of those also brings its own suitcase full of pros and cons. I promise that none of these decisions are being taken lightly or made impulsively.

Are you able to expand on this?

Send me a message on FB and we can talk about it, but like I said, I'm on here in case there are SMAs that have questions about COPT-R I can answer. I don't want to drag this thread down that rabbit hole.

This thread is a great place to go down that rabbit hole, as it sheds more light on the program, so I would encourage you to share what you're able to publicly.

Not that hearing when 50-something year old men got issued their flight jacket isn't terribly interesting...

 

[Griz882]

Not that hearing when 50-something year old men got issued their flight jacket isn't terribly interesting...

That would be 60…uh…plus…but sure, I am compelled to agree.