Flight Suit Pen Pockets suck for Lefties

[Uncle Fester]

I remember reading about a Tomcat nearly crashing on a range run because a thick washer rolled down into the pit at the bottom of the stick. Pilot couldn't get enough back-stick to pull out of a shallow dive...RIO was about five seconds from punching them when the pilot planted his feet and pulled back like hell. Fortunately for them he was a big weights guy and compressed the washer enough for them to level off.

I don't know if this is the source of TACAIR's FOD-phobia but it certainly didn't help. I do know that the Tailhook side is much more anal-retentive about FOD than anyone else I've ever talked to or flown with - helos, Air Force, VP, etc.

 

[JIMC5499]

I like to leave one in the clipboard, one in the pocket, and one somewhere under the seat never to be found again...

Damn picklesuit. Where were you at when I was doing Daily and Turnaround inspections? I could never find a pen to fill out the form. With you around I would have always had one.

 

[HuggyU2]

I hear you, Fester.
I had a guy in my squadron doing a Functional Check Flight in the T-38. He was up around 20000', with the power back in idle. Did some unloads, G'd it up, and worked into the next event: an aft stick stall. Well, he falls a few thousand feet, and when he goes to recover, the throttles won't move. So, he unloads to keep flying, but he's in idle. The T-38 ain't known for it's big glider wing. After working and banging the throttles, he gets his left foot up behind the throttles (don't know how), and kicks the throttles into mil/max.
Short story: MX had dropped a pen in the throttle quadrant during phase. His kicking the throttles literally snapped the pen in half.

 

[Alpha_Echo_606]

I like to leave one in the clipboard, one in the pocket, and one somewhere under the seat never to be found again...

I think I found your pen the other day on final clean. Glad the DCMA Rep didn't find it first, you could have gotten me into big trouble.

Back on topic, FOD should be a big deal in which ever community you're in. I've pulled more FOD out from different places then I ever should have, some is careless maintenance other is to be chalked up to aircrew. Tie your pen to your kneeboard and be done with it for about 10 cents of lacing tape.

 

[JustAGuy]

But if you drop the pencil on the floor, would you KIO, abort the sortie, and RTB?

If you can't retrieve it, yes. Because the one place it ends up is the one place that makes things really bad.

I do know that the Tailhook side is much more anal-retentive about FOD than anyone else I've ever talked to or flown with - helos, Air Force, VP, etc.

Very much so true, for all reasons. Watching a hornet FOD an engine on a night trap or while in tension makes for a lot of seat cushion in places it's not supposed to be. Or just ask the guy that had to shut down an engine blue water because one of the throttles was stuck in full afterburner, and no amount of force/g was going to get it unstuck. Sometime force will overcome, sometimes, it might not. Or seeing a maintainer's lighter fly by your feet after a trap. I would rather never take that chance.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Tie your pen to your kneeboard and be done with it for about 10 cents of lacing tape.

I'll get right on that...

You know what I do when I drop a pen? If I can reach it - I get it. If it's under my seat, the crewchief will get it for me. If it falls into the chin bubble - the crew chief will get it when I land. I would have to WORK at getting my pen somewhere bad. There's a reason it's a by community thing.

And we are always concerned about FOD...

 

[Brett327]

But if you drop the pencil on the floor, would you KIO, abort the sortie, and RTB?

Depends. Combat sortie, probably not. Training sortie, probably. Training sortie with any kind of dynamic maneuvering, absolutely. It's awfully hard to justify continuing a training flight after FODing the cockpit when you're standing at the end of the long green table.

Brett

 

[A4sForever]

Depends...... Training sortie with any kind of dynamic maneuvering, absolutely......

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh ... neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwww .... translation: no.

Ever fly Adversary ???

 

[Brett327]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh ... neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwww .... translation: no.

Ever fly Adversary ???

Let's just say that nobody is going to second guess you for aborting due to FOD in the cockpit.

Brett

 

[A4sForever]

Let's just say that nobody is going to second guess you for aborting due to FOD in the cockpit.

Brett

Airborne abort??? For a dropped pen/pencil ??? W/ no secondaries ???

You would have got your ass kicked ...

Everytime we went negative "G" -- A-4 or A-6 .... or anything I flew tactically ... you got a whole new supply of pens/pencils, dirt, and assorted crap up from the floorboards ...

It must be a 'different' Navy these days ...

 

[BACONATOR]

As a TRACOM helo dude, I always had a pen tied to my 9G kneeboard. Made things easier since I am clumsy and always drop pens and various other small items. It's convenient too if something abrupt comes up to just toss the pen aside and fish it back later once things are "controlled" again.

And the Navy kneedboard monstrosity is a piece of shit, to be sure. I haven't seen that thing since it was issued to me. Not even worth its weight in firewood.

Everytime we went negative "G" -- A-4 or A-6 .... or anything I flew tactically ... you got a whole new supply of pens/pencils, dirt, and assorted crap up from the floorboards ...

It must be a 'different' Navy these days ...

What about hard candy? Surely some of that must have floated up from the floorboard abyss as well, yeeeaaaas? Something to occupy the oral fixation whilst attending to the cataloging of new writing utensils....

 

[MAKE VAPES]

Prowler folks...
What do you guys do when ECMO 3 drops his whiz-wheel? With 4 dudes, the mighty electric drumstick must be a inflight FOD aborting machine! Maybe that's why the Super-dee dooper Horneh'/Growleh' doesn't have seat behind, seat behind, seat behind, seat!

For the rest of the double anchor bretheren, I think the thread started with a wanna be single anchor kid trying to figure out how to fly and write at the same time! Not that there isn't some important crapola that goes on back there in your world, but when my RIO used a pen in flight while monkeying with the LANTIRN pod and dropped it, although a motor may have stalled (A), the plane didn't roll upside down. I think you could probably tie a no shit lasso around your oversized kindergarten crayola back there and get the job done right?

The TRACOM kids are trained for single seat, zero (from my time) used the POS navy issued kneeboard. 9G or some variant was the norm, turn it upside down if you want your extraneous blue brain crap on the right side vice left (to keep it away from the schtick). Tie a writing utencil to it and learn to scritchy scratch legibly with your right hand if not previouslly equipped for such.

I would shit all over a sub-sub conian (and did) for rubber bands around the hand/pen while trying to fly, besides the reasons listed above, its just gay.

 

[TheBubba]

Prowler folks...
What do you guys do when ECMO 3 drops his whiz-wheel? With 4 dudes, the mighty electric drumstick must be a inflight FOD aborting machine! Maybe that's why the Super-dee dooper Horneh'/Growleh' doesn't have seat behind, seat behind, seat behind, seat!

But ECMO2 carries the whiz wheel!!!!

As far as single seat guys writing in the jet... isn't that what trim and auto-pilot are for?

 

[a-6intruder]

Kids:

Three issues here:

1. Safety of Flight

2. Maintenance Support

3. Efficient Performance in the Cockpit

Not necessarily in that order, but all apply whether you are pilot or NFO, although perhaps they apply more in the TACAIR community than others.

1. If you drop your pen there's a remote possibility it will get stuck somewhere and jam throttles or flight controls. You may or may not be able to muscle your way through it. If it's a plastic government 200nm black Skillcraft pen, it will probably break with sufficient force applied. Perhaps not if you fly with some sporty executive "Cross" pen or wooden Mont Blanc look alike (like some senior guys I knew).

2. If you drop your pen and can't find it, you have an obligation to down the aircraft after the flight for FOD in the cockpit. Ideally you can find it as you unstrap and climb out. If not, the troops will have to look for it. I guarantee that when the jet traps, it will not be anywhere where you thought it would be, but will get slammed forward and slip through the firewall or through the floorboards. In the quick turnaround of carrier cyclic ops, that may mean losing a sortie while maintenance searches for it. The heat vector would immediately be on you. You don't want that.

3. You drop your pen in the Intruder or Prowler, you ask your bud sitting next to you to use his spare (if you forgot yours). Not sure how the pilot tosses his spare back to the RIO / WSO. And, in my experience, the pilot never carried any "extra" anything - as A-4s said, that was what the Bombardier / Navigator / Co-pilot / Secretary / Snack Mom / Psychiatrist / Cheerleader in the right seat was for . So, you either had to ask for the pilot to unload the jet, and hope the pen floated back up to where you could get it, unstrap and root around for it in flight, or use your spare from your sleeve pocket. But, Murphy's law guarantees that the time you need the spare is the time your pilot borrowed it to sign for the jet in maintenance control and left it on the counter. Then you're stuck having to rely on your memory to get you through things like clearances, frequency changes, marshall instructions, debrief items, etc, etc.

Tie it on your kneeboard and none of those things will happen. I promise.

 

[Brett327]

Airborne abort??? For a dropped pen/pencil ??? W/ no secondaries ???

You would have got your ass kicked ...

Everytime we went negative "G" -- A-4 or A-6 .... or anything I flew tactically ... you got a whole new supply of pens/pencils, dirt, and assorted crap up from the floorboards ...

It must be a 'different' Navy these days ...

Yeah, different in that the mishap rate is greatly reduced - go figure.

Brett