They'd have to recall and court martial him to get a dismissal. Doubtful they'd do that given they didn't touch anyone convicted by DOJ for involvement with Fat Leonard.
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Former NAVEUR Arrested on Bribery Charges
- Thread starter SynixMan
- Start date
I don't have a reference, or anything, but my understanding is that 30 years active duty time is the threshold between retiring to the "Fleet Reserve" vs. the no-kidding retired list. In theory, you're no longer subject to the UCMJ at that point, though the case law for holding ANY retirees accountable to the UCMJ is pretty sparse. So, in September of this year, I'm considering myself free of the constraints of Art 88. Officials, far and wide, best prepare themselves for my contemptuous wrath.As part of this discussion of retired officers and malfeasance, it got me thinking about some hypotheticals that I don't know the answer to.
AFAIK, if you are retired and under the age of 60 you are theoretically subject to recall to AD (WW3 type scenario), and then at age 60 you roll over to the permanent retired list.
In the hypothetical scenario of a retired O-5 that gets charged with robbing a bank let's say, what happens wrt the UCMJ? (I believe the Supreme Court ruled in the last few years that a retired SSgt in Okinawa could not be recalled to AD and subject to the UCMJ after a sexual assault charge while he was a retired civilian). If that's the case or not, does it matter the age (above 60/or below). If not, would there be an administrative mechanism to reduce the rank of said O-5 retired bank robber, even if he couldn't be recalled to AD to face the UCMJ?
Thanks for my TED Talk inquiry.
So, no more fear of that HAL dude's warnings of Art 88 referrals?...I don't have a reference, or anything, but my understanding is that 30 years active duty time is the threshold between retiring to the "Fleet Reserve" vs. the no-kidding retired list. In theory, you're no longer subject to the UCMJ at that point, though the case law for holding ANY retirees accountable to the UCMJ is pretty sparse. So, in September of this year, I'm considering myself free of the constraints of Art 88. Officials, far and wide, best prepare themselves for my contemptuous wrath.
I knew of a reservist who had a heart attack and died. In the driveway. The day before the drill weekend (or maybe the morning, I forget).
It turned into a huge blowup whether he was walking to the car to get in and drive to the drill site, and so he died in the line of duty, or was he just getting the paper? Did he have his car keys in hand or just in the pocket? If he was throwing his golf clubs in the trunk for the drill weekend afternoon, was that line of duty? Suitcase with uniforms? Impactful to the spouse, and benefits.
This is true. I personally know an army reservist who had a stroke on Sunday afternoon after leaving a drill weekend. In the end the service decided it was not within LOD…so nothing beyond having to wait for age 60 to get his reserve retirement.
How convenient, because a few years ago management was pushing that members were subject to UCMJ during a drill weekend starting from the time they commenced travel to when they returned home, with the scenario presented being a member getting a DUI while driving home after their last Sunday drill.
We had a reserve JAG at my last command and according to him no, the USNR only takes JAGs who had done active duty time as JAGs. He said that a long time ago (20 or more years) they did take a few DCO JAG folks who had done no active time but their unfamiliarity with the particulars of military and conflict law was a serious impediment to effectively using them so they stopped. Probably explains why I knew at least half a dozen lawyer Intel DCO's who commissioned in the 90's, none could get in as a JAG though some wanted to.
That said, the USNR DCO program has long been an easy way for (some) folks who want to get a commission without going through any sort of OCS or any other military training before raising your right hand and throwing on a uniform. Training follows commissioning but I am not aware of an easier way to get a commission in the US military for at least some of the jobs like Intel, IP and a few others (docs and chaplains are another ball 'o wax). In my personal experience usually USNR DCO's fell into one of three categories, sometimes a mix of them; 1- Civilian experts (civilian Intel O's, etc), 2 - Prior service, usually with some applicable civilian experience, 3 - Political types. I personally only ran into 2 or 3 of the political types when I was in the reserves but was aware of more than a few from both sides of the aisle to include among others the President's former Chief of Staff, a President's son and a former Deputy National Security Advisor who took military leave because he was deploying to Iraq as a Intel O (as a LT or LTJG), with a SEAL team of course.
So why does the Navy Reserve bring in DCO's like that? I think it is a two way street, the DCO's get to serve and put it on their resume and the Navy gets folks who will hopefully have their backs in the political world at very little 'cost' to the service. Sometimes they work out, sometimes they don't. For folks who have relevant experience sometimes they bring them in at a higher grade but I am not aware of any that came in at O-5 unless they were a doc.
Getting back to this guy though, his entry rank and designator experience are out of the norm even for USNR DCO's and JAG's from what I know.
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Were I to die before "retiring" from the reserves, I wouldn't be disappointed if it caused this much trouble.
Fun fact. They had a program for guys to DCO as Nuke Power School instructors when I was a new ENS (not sure if it still exists). I forget the specific timing, but I want to say they had to either lat transfer or resign after 2-3 years. Well a JO bud of mine came from that, and he had ended up lat transferring to SNA (as did a couple others in that timeframe), got to F/A-18's, and ultimately commanded a VFC squadron. All without any form of OCS/Academy/formal officer training. Great dude, and highly capable. He didn't have any trouble, other than overcoming the severe career timing problem his original tour imposed.
I know of a couple of DCO NPS instructors who commissioned in the last couple of years. Both are great people, and seemed to thrive in their jobs.
Transferring from NPS to SNA is absurd
There's a pilot in the fleet who was a DCO in the AEDO community as a reservist, then became an active SNA and flies something multi-engine now. I think an O2 or junior O3 at the switch to SNA. Just the DCO school for officer training.