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Growler RAG?

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Which brings up a good question.......how much do the G folks do BFM outside of the RAG syllabus? I know folks I knew who went to -129 talked about doing KW dets, BFM and Fighter Weps, but I have heard in the last couple years this has changed. Either way, my impression was that they didn't do much of that beyond the RAG
It's probably useful to separate BFM from A/A for the purposes of this discussion, but I'll defer to the G guys on this. Obviously, the G can be employed very differently within the context of a strike package, but let's not stray too far into the tactics realm.
 

KBayDog

Well-Known Member
Hearing stuff like that makes me want to go Growlers more and more everyday. That community brief had me at BFM :cool:

It's a little known fact that we lowly rotor trash love BFM just as much (if not more) than you fast-movers.

220px-Cliff_Clavin_in_Cheers.jpg
 

Recovering LSO

Suck Less
pilot
Contributor
Having recently completed a CATII transition, I'll add that the BFM syllabus is brief: Less than SNA's get in VTs - by almost 50%, and MUCH less than CAT I/IIs at VFA FRSs get... And the GWTP syllabus just got shorter with the removal of a flight (perhaps two, instruction was vague).

Brett correctly suggests that it is wise to think of A to A and BFM separately. I submit that he is incorrect, however, with his summary of the FRS syllabus though (ratio of A-A training -vs- other phases, presumably AEA?).

You can provide a better EW product to the customer because of the A to A capabilities. Timelines we executed in the Big Jammer are now considerably different, based on A to A capabilities - therefore you are going to get A to A exposure in both the basic fighter phase as well as throughout the AEA phase.

I was a doubter when I did my first syllabus a few years ago - having come through again and gone through an entire CAT II syllabus, I'll say they're really close to having right - with a few tweaks here and there.
 

Renegade One

Well-Known Member
None
You can provide a better EW product to the customer because of the A to A capabilities.
Would it be safe to say that (or possibly...ask if?) the A-A capabilities resident in the platform (in addition to much, much else in the G model) allow the aircraft to "penetrate farther" (if that's an operational plus) and also provide a level of "self-escort" capability that could reduce escort "overhead"?

That all sounds good, if I have it correctly.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Would it be safe to say that (or possibly...ask if?) the A-A capabilities resident in the platform (in addition to much, much else in the G model) allow the aircraft to "penetrate farther" (if that's an operational plus) and also provide a level of "self-escort" capability that could reduce escort "overhead"?

That all sounds good, if I have it correctly.
Probably not a road we want to go down.
 

Recovering LSO

Suck Less
pilot
Contributor
Would it be safe to say that (or possibly...ask if?) the A-A capabilities resident in the platform (in addition to much, much else in the G model) allow the aircraft to "penetrate farther" (if that's an operational plus) and also provide a level of "self-escort" capability that could reduce escort "overhead"?

That all sounds good, if I have it correctly.

Vaguely and simply stated: You're not as blind and/or reliant on others for SA.
 

Catmando

Keep your knots up.
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
Although he had no flight controls, my RO often flew my aircraft.

When he said, "Break Port!" my F-4 magically broke port.
When he said, "Judy," the aircraft was his.
When he said, "I've got the SAM, you've got the target, continue," I trusted him with my life.
He punched flairs and chaff when needed, and did not when not needed. I did not have to tell him.
He found bogies/bandits I could never see.
He warned me of our flight leads nasty flight tendencies.
He kept me from doing stupid things that I thought I really wanted to do.
He also always got the "ugly one."
We trained together, planned together, fought together... and we even duked it out one night aboard ship for what, we don't remember, and then manned up the next morning going 'downtown'.
We were a team. We trained hard. We had pride in our mutual performance. We worked hand in glove. And we both saved each others bacon. Flying solo is for the ego. Flying in combat is better with a two man foxhole, when both are experts.

I was never a weak pilot, but still, I always relied on my partner. Fortunately the ROs I flew with in combat were the best! A couple of others, not so much.
 

Renegade One

Well-Known Member
None
The question:
Serve as a crutch to a weak pilot, and back up his story at the bar later?

The answer:
Although he had no flight controls, my RO often flew my aircraft.
When he said, "Break Port!" my F-4 magically broke port.
When he said, "Judy," the aircraft was his.
When he said, "I've got the SAM, you've got the target, continue," I trusted him with my life.
He punched flairs and chaff when needed, and did not when not needed. I did not have to tell him.
He found bogies/bandits I could never see.
He warned me of our flight leads nasty flight tendencies.
He kept me from doing stupid things that I thought I really wanted to do.
He also always got the "ugly one."
We trained together, planned together, fought together... and we even duked it out one night aboard ship for what, we don't remember, and then manned up the next morning going 'downtown'.
We were a team. We trained hard. We had pride in our mutual performance. We worked hand in glove. And we both saved each others bacon. Flying solo is for the ego. Flying in combat is better with a two man foxhole, when both are experts.

I was never a weak pilot, but still, I always relied on my partner. Fortunately the ROs I flew with in combat were the best! A couple of others, not so much.

Thanks, Cat, for the historical perspective.
 

MidWestEwo

Member
None
To piggyback on everyone else, I'm getting close to finishing advanced and it's great to have so many hornet guus to talk to about hornets but I could really use someone to talk to about growlers. Typical growler gouge I get here is that they are gay, hornets are badass, and you don't pull g's or kill anything.

So if someone wouldn't mind I'd love to PM my number to actually talk to someone. If not maybe just a couple answers
-How do you like it?
-I know the material might be sensitive but I'd like to get a feel for what I'll actually be doing. Running a/a radars or t-6 nav is a lot different.
-How limited is the "fun"? G's, aero, BFM?
-How much weapons training/deployment is involved?

Choosing a platform based off personality is difficult with these two. One hand I love pulling g's and the idea of blowing bad guys up, on the other I think the ability to jam and manipulate the electronic spectrum is pretty badass. I like the idea of a new aircraft with the best technology.

I know I'd be happy in either platform but like everything in life best is better than good, so I'd like the chose the best one for me.

Thanks for the time and help


Sorry for replying so late. I have not been on AW for quite some time. I love flying the Growler so far. I am nearing the end of the syllabus and I can say that what we do is extensive, and the crew coordination between the front and back seat is very rewarding. Without getting into too much detail I can talk a little about what to expect as a Growler ewo. Your basic instrument navigation is going to serve you well since you will be the 'mission commander' so to speak all through the rag. You will be in charge of your section/division's navigation and communication to and from the working areas or MTR's just as you have done so through training. Your pilots have been doing this all alone until they start flying with you, but it will not take long for them to really appreciate only having to fly while you take care of the nerdy stuff. The fun isn't exactly limited. We pull as many G's as a fighter, and BFM is a critical part of our syllabus. We learn basic fighter tactics to be built on after we hit the fleet, and you are expected to know air to air employment just as any super hornet WSO. You will have a BFM syllabus as well, and you will even have the opportunity to test your skills against adversary squadrons on fighter DET. After all of that you will learn all of the fundamentals to the EA mission just as your fellow prowler NFO's have been doing since the beginning. Feel free to PM me any other specific questions about the area or whatever and I will try to get back to you as soon as I can.
 
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