Gun replica prompts arrest, lockdowns

[MasterBates]

ONE Teacher with a CCW, and the training/will to use it would have stopped coulmbine in their tracks.

And to your earler question about indoctrination, I had:

2 anti-gun "rallys" that were mando attendance in Junior High (Carver High School, Carver MA, 1990 & 1991)
Numerous reading assignments that were of a pro-gun-control content.
Having to write a paper on the "dangers of handguns" (11th grade, Old Colony Regional Voc-Tech HS, Rochester MA, 1995)
Having numeous speakers from the "Brady Bunch" and other gun-control groups, without a single counterpoint on responsible gun use from say, the NRA, GOAL or Hunter Safety Instructors..

Need more examples?

 

[navy09]

ONE Teacher with a CCW, and the training/will to use it would have stopped coulmbine in their tracks.

That’s highly speculative…if I remember correctly, there were actual LEO’s assigned to the school who were on-scene and had to fall back after briefly engaging the shooters.

If you’ll allow me to speculate…one teacher with a CCW and enough balls to take on two gunmen with automatic weapons would almost certainly have been killed.

 

[MasterBates]

First of all, they did not have automatic weapons. That is another term the media LOVES to throw around, like "Assault Rifle". And assualt rifle is a select-fire weapon chambered in an intermediate cartridge. An AR-15 is not an assault rifle, regardless of what CNN or FOX claims.

Second point, and this also cannot be proven either, nor can it be disproved, is that if students know teachers may be packing (but not necciscarily knowing WHICH teachers) the "blaze of glory" attack looks a lot less enticing.

 

[Flash]

ONE Teacher with a CCW, and the training/will to use it would have stopped coulmbine in their tracks.

So we are going to train our teachers on close-in firearms tactics and arm them? I thought teachers were busy enough trying to teach class, making sure their students were able to pass the required standardized tests, making lesson plans, grading tests and papers, coaching sports teams, etc., etc........Yeah, teachers have plenty of time to learn close-in weapons tactics, maintain their shooting proficiency and learn hand to hand combat tactics to make sure that a random student doesn't grab the 'concealed' firearm from them.........:icon_roll

And to your earler question about indoctrination, I had:

2 anti-gun "rallys" that were mando attendance in Junior High (Carver High School, Carver MA, 1990 & 1991)
Numerous reading assignments that were of a pro-gun-control content.
Having to write a paper on the "dangers of handguns" (11th grade, Old Colony Regional Voc-Tech HS, Rochester MA, 1995)
Having numeous speakers from the "Brady Bunch" and other gun-control groups, without a single counterpoint on responsible gun use from say, the NRA, GOAL or Hunter Safety Instructors..

Need more examples?

So you are going to make broad and sweeping statements on only your own experience??!! Like I said, the liberal state/county I grew up in never had any such stuff in the schools. Never heard of anyone else having the same experience as you, as a matter of fact some of the opposite with hunter safety courses and the like at schools.

 

[Flash]

First of all, they did not have automatic weapons. That is another term the media LOVES to throw around, like "Assault Rifle". And assualt rifle is a select-fire weapon chambered in an intermediate cartridge. An AR-15 is not an assault rifle, regardless of what CNN or FOX claims.

Civilian version of a military weapon, how about that? Good enough for you?

Second point, and this also cannot be proven either, nor can it be disproved, is that if students know teachers may be packing (but not necciscarily knowing WHICH teachers) the "blaze of glory" attack looks a lot less enticing.

Ah yes, maybe or maybe not, who knows?! Wouldn't a cop or two be a good deterrent too?

 

[MasterBates]

So we are going to train our teachers on close-in firearms tactics and arm them?

Flash, much like CCW with normal people, it would be 100% voluntary, and those that care not to have/carry firearms would not be forced to. The teachers I know who are fireams enthusiasts, have some of this training already.

So you are going to make broad and sweeping statements on only your own experience??!! Like I said, the liberal state/county I grew up in never had any such stuff in the schools. Never heard of anyone else having the same experience as you, as a matter of fact some of the opposite with hunter safety courses and the like at schools.

So because you grew up in one liberal area, and never had this sort of stuff, and I grew up in an area that did, the majority must be like your hometown?

I know schools that had hunter safety courses. Most often smal rural towns, where firearm ownership is not looked up as taboo/evil like hot it was looked upon by many where I grew up.

 

[Flash]

Flash, much like CCW with normal people, it would be 100% voluntary, and those that care not to have/carry firearms would not be forced to. The teachers I know who are fireams enthusiasts, have some of this training already.

That is all well and good that the teachers you knew were 'trained' but there would have to be standards drawn up and followed if there were ever guns introduced nito a school system. And they couldn't just use whatever 'training' people paid for, whatever the quality that might be. Iwould assume that they would put the onus for training on the police, and they don't have anythign to do, do they?

So because you grew up in one liberal area, and never had this sort of stuff, and I grew up in an area that did, the majority must be like your hometown?

I know schools that had hunter safety courses. Most often smal rural towns, where firearm ownership is not looked up as taboo/evil like hot it was looked upon by many where I grew up.

The onus is on you, you are the one who made the sweeping statement..... "What should be the expected reaction, if people did not have an illogical fear of weapons indoctrinated into them by a socialistic school system from day 1 of kindergarten (aka, USA before ~1960s)" And I have never heard anyone else talk about anti-gun rallies at their schools, and I have had plenty of gun discussions with my colleagues from around the country.

The debate is a moot point anyways, the American public at large is not going to allow guns be carried by teachers in schools.

 

[raptor10]

I got slammed for writing an article about the AWB sunset in 04 (by ironically the same teacher that did not understand my binary joke). Something about insensitivity towards those hurt by these "assault weapons." So I was forced to be a part of the high school production "Bang Bang Your Dead" my senior year.

 

[navy09]

OK, I did the research I should have done before my first post...you're right, neither had automatic weapons.

One had a "high power rifle" (Hi-Point model 995 carbine) and a shotgun...#2 had a shotgun and a TEC-9. These two each had your average SWAT officer outgunned...not to mention a teacher (or any Jack Bauer wannabe civilian) with a CCW and a Glock with 10 rounds.

If you carry, that's all good...it's your right. But anyone who would take on two heavily armed gunmen with a pistol is an fvcking idiot and probably has a suicidal yearnings of going down in a blaze of glory themselves.

 

[raptor10]

But anyone who would take on two heavily armed gunmen with a pistol is an fvcking idiot and probably has a suicidal yearnings of going down in a blaze of glory themselves.

WTF MATE‽ If I had a dick and brain, and I was in there with the two of them, no doubt in my mind they would have been taken down. And I wouldn't have died either.

And, it just takes two, baby.

 

[Flash]

WTF MATE.....If I had a dick and brain, and I was in there with the two of them, no doubt in my mind they would have been taken down. And I wouldn't have died either.

You have quite the confidence in your abilities.....you never know what would have happened unless you were there, a statement like that borders on arrogance........

 

[navy09]

WTF MATE‽ If I had a dick and brain, and I was in there with the two of them, no doubt in my mind they would have been taken down. And I wouldn't have died either.

And, it just takes two, baby.

Without having been in that particular situation...without ever being in a situation remotely like that...it's pretty stupid to make a claim like that.

All the range time in the world would hardly compensate for being THAT outmanned and outgunned...get a clue man.

 

[MasterBates]

OK, I did the research I should have done before my first post...you're right, neither had automatic weapons.

One had a "high power rifle" (Hi-Point model 995 carbine) and a shotgun...#2 had a shotgun and a TEC-9. These two each had your average SWAT officer outgunned...not to mention a teacher (or any Jack Bauer wannabe civilian) with a CCW and a Glock with 10 rounds.

If you carry, that's all good...it's your right. But anyone who would take on two heavily armed gunmen with a pistol is an fvcking idiot and probably has a suicidal yearnings of going down in a blaze of glory themselves.

High power rifle? The Hi-Point 995 is chambered in 9mm Parabellum. Same round the M9 and M11 shoot. It is a pistol round. Very low on the power spectrum. A .308 or 30-06 would be more along the lines of a "full power" rifle cartridge. Another point of media using "scary" sounding terms, which are misleading to say the least.

Shotguns. Not any different than what most patrol officers keep in the car.

TEC-9. Another "scary looking" handgun that shoots the same 9mm Parabellum round that the M9 and M11 shoot. Looks do not kill, but they do scare the pants off of those who fear inanimate objects that require human interaction to function.

How that is "out gunning" your average SWAT officer, who would be carrying something along the lines of either an MP5, which while chambered in 9mm, is select fire, meaning it can be semi or full automatic, or more likely some M-16 variant, which is chambered in 5.56 NATO (aka .223 Remington), also select fire.

Plus, they would have sidearms, most likely in 45ACP or 40 S&W, possibly 9mm. Some departments use weapons in 7.62x51 (aka 308 Winchester) but those are usually reserved for marksmen.

But, back to the original point, by the time police are called, the fecal matter has hit the fan, or is about to. Police are there to clean up the mess, and help keep the peace. They cannot be everywhere at all times. People who live in more rural areas really understand this.

Oh, and the Jack Bauer/10 rounds comment, only in a couple states are you restricted to reduced capacity magazines. My 1911 has 13+1 capacity, and I carry spare mags. 40 & 9mm chambered weapons will have even more. Capacity does not mean shat if you do not hit what you are aiming at.

 

[navy09]

High power rifle? The Hi-Point 995 is chambered in 9mm Parabellum. Same round the M9 and M11 shoot.

I'm certainly no gun expert, but doesn't the MP5 shoot the 9mm Parabellum as well? Assuming Mr. SWAT has permission to select full auto in a school (I'm not familiar with that PD's General Orders), he would have an advantage WRT firepower.

Nevertheless...clearly, the first officers on scene that day WERE outgunned. Solution: give the professionals more firepower, not the librarian, shop teacher, or lunch lady.

Teachers shouldn't carry guns at school (no brainer)! That's what security guards and school police officers are for.

Again, on your own time, do what you want.

 

[MasterBates]

Why is it a no brainer for teachers not to carry?

Scenario:

Person comes into lunchroom. Threatens to stab/shoot/whatever students.

Teacher has gun. Teacher holds person at gunpoint until police can get there. Unlike on TV, cops don't magically appear in 20 seconds.

Same situation, no teacher with gun.

Person comes in, threatens to do harm, teacher/aide runs to get help. In the 30 seconds it takes them to get to a phone, person does harm. Let's say there is a cop on campus. He gets there in 60 more seconds.

90 seconds is a LONG time when you do not have a viable defense against a determined opponent.

Then you have the whole deterrent factor.