Are there any DoD/Joint restrictions on the Army buying Group 4/5 UAS? Group 3 and below probably doesn’t meet the Army’s requirement for organic deep reconnaissance.
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- Thread starter Randy Daytona
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Are there any DoD/Joint restrictions on the Army buying Group 4/5 UAS? Group 3 and below probably doesn’t meet the Army’s requirement for organic deep reconnaissance.
That is a great question. I’ll ask around to see if I can find anything.
They have MQ-1C's.
Not quite that bad. The coalition forces lost about 70 helicopters to hostile fire between OIF and OEF with 14 of those being scout ships (10 in Iraq and 4 in Afghanistan) while 15 Apache’s were shot down and 20 -60’s and 13 Chinooks. The Kiowa Warrior was simply too small to bolt more sensors on so the Army wanted rid of it. Scouts still have a place and all of the FARA (future attack-recon aircraft) models are working hard to avoid the fatness of the Apache and the skinny nature of the Kiowa even though I think the lesson of the Ukraine war in this case is to use UAVs for the scout mission and make your attack helicopters fast and small.
Maybe. Raw numbers don't tell the whole story considering the volumes of helos flown in those conflicts. Wikipedia says 35 airframes lost during the conflict. Not trying to be emotional but my friend's husband was shot down in a Kiowa by just small arms and had to relearn how to walk over the course of a couple years. His copilot didn't survive.
As others have said, the light armed scout mission is now performed by UAS that can do it for cheaper and without losing pilots. Pure gunships and assault transport still have a role to play in a land war, as does logistics and various naval combat missions.
I'm just still not convinced UAS is the answer in a near-peer. Even with crypto. There seems to be a lot of examples of how a couple of guys with some long wires and a generator can be too disruptive. I don't expect an answer here, but I do wonder how robust UAS INS in a denied environment, but even then, targeting resolution is going to decrease drastically.
I think that many of the near-peer threats to UAV's are the same that would pose a very serious threat to manned scout helicopters. The juice just may not be worth the squeeze when it comes to an OH-58 successor.
I don’t doubt the first part. I have an ARCOM for participating in a street fight to rescue a Kiowa crew. Scouts fly low, slow, an over the same area for multiple sweeps. I agree that UAS can fill in most of the work (and that the army doesn’t need a stop-gap scout ship) but they do need to design the new ship for real recon - attack.
This has been, what 20 years in the making? Like you Griz, scratching my head on the application - private or commercial. A solution in search of a problem. For $25MM you can buy a fleet of PC-12s with good STOL capability and a few modern Airbus helos...
I mean if I won the lottery (twice maybe) I’d buy one to zip around in. Be the coolest guy at the airport! Also, I think CAP should dump the ancient Cessna designs and buy a few hundred of these.
Rooftop to rooftop at airplane ranges / speeds for Executives / VIP’s all over the world for whom money is not an object - but time, security and privacy are.
Tha
Unless you're also the owner, CEOs have to justify expenses like this in a business case. If I can buy two helicopters and a jet for the price of a 609, the board is going to think it's a frivolous expense.
That's a small group to hang an aircraft on.
Unless you're also the owner, CEOs have to justify expenses like this in a business case. If I can buy two helicopters and a jet for the price of a 609, the board is going to think it's a frivolous expense.
I don't disagree on the face of it, but of course the calculus is a bit more involved than that. Maintenance on a fleet of 2 or 3 aircraft to do the job one can do is certainly a consideration. Training and currency for pilots on more than one airframe. Average stage lengths and destination facilities/capabilities as well. The 609 is certainly crazy expensive for what it is, but maybe that price reflects what they already have identified as a small niche market that will bear the price.
Some interesting Bell Helicopter news….
www.thedrive.com
I wonder if I could get that system to work on the Griz-O-Copter?
Bell Is Arming Its Civil Helicopters In Hopes Of Replacing Europe's Russian Rotorcraft
Bell executives foresee the Russian rotorcraft industry collapsing, opening a market for affordable, easy-to-operate alternatives.
www.thedrive.com
I wonder if I could get that system to work on the Griz-O-Copter?