Aww really? I always thought the weapon system officers were NFO's. Bummer.
Actually, no it's not. If I make pilot, I could gun AND fly haha. Just a bummer for getting selected.
-
Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?
Go here:
Edit Account Details and Profile
How many pilots are prior enlisted?
- Thread starter Ventus
- Start date
Actually, no it's not. If I make pilot, I could gun AND fly haha. Just a bummer for getting selected.
Ventus, being enlisted in the Army at any rank below E-7 sucks...like being a Hull Technician or an undesignated SN on a CVN sucks.. (do they even still have HTs?) however, being an Army WO is the best gig I could've ever hoped for, and I was enlisted for almost 13 years and left as a Chief (ADC).
As a (squared away) WO, you will fly as much as any other service, and more as you get more senior when your peers in sister services are doing boat tours, IAs, or dissasociated tours of some sort.
As for flying MH-6's there's a pretty long and rigorus road between here and there, but it is a goal to be sought. The Army is also expanding it's fixed-wing fleet, and while you'll never fly fighters ot big iron, there's a lot of guys/gals getting out after their 6 year committment (yes 6, not 8 or 10 for the sister services), dual rated with a boat-load of turbine, multi-engine time and are competitive for the best of the 20K/year airline jobs currently available
As for landing on a ship, if you do some research, back in 2001 you find there was an anetire CVN that had an air wing comprised soley of black helicoptrers and flew a Green 1-star flag on the bridge. With the exception of actually deploying for 6 months on a ship, we do out deck quals with about the same frequency as shore based navy/USMC squadrons. the regular Army guy's deck time may vary depending on the platform, they fly.
There's also a good number of ex-Army WOs you got their degree on AD and are now Navy CDR's, AF LTCs, etc.
Warrant Officer Candidate School is extremely competitve right, probably no different than OCS for any of the services. You'd be a fool to turn down flight school offered to you from any service, much the same way you'd be missing out by turning down an appointment to West Point just because you'd always wanted to go to Annapolis, etc.
MR-
As a (squared away) WO, you will fly as much as any other service, and more as you get more senior when your peers in sister services are doing boat tours, IAs, or dissasociated tours of some sort.
As for flying MH-6's there's a pretty long and rigorus road between here and there, but it is a goal to be sought. The Army is also expanding it's fixed-wing fleet, and while you'll never fly fighters ot big iron, there's a lot of guys/gals getting out after their 6 year committment (yes 6, not 8 or 10 for the sister services), dual rated with a boat-load of turbine, multi-engine time and are competitive for the best of the 20K/year airline jobs currently available
As for landing on a ship, if you do some research, back in 2001 you find there was an anetire CVN that had an air wing comprised soley of black helicoptrers and flew a Green 1-star flag on the bridge. With the exception of actually deploying for 6 months on a ship, we do out deck quals with about the same frequency as shore based navy/USMC squadrons. the regular Army guy's deck time may vary depending on the platform, they fly.
There's also a good number of ex-Army WOs you got their degree on AD and are now Navy CDR's, AF LTCs, etc.
Warrant Officer Candidate School is extremely competitve right, probably no different than OCS for any of the services. You'd be a fool to turn down flight school offered to you from any service, much the same way you'd be missing out by turning down an appointment to West Point just because you'd always wanted to go to Annapolis, etc.
MR-
I also heard that it was basically military career suicide to go from Warrant Officer to Officer, or is that just within a branch?
Ulitimately when it comes to the "how hard is it to..." questions theres no real answer. The only two things that are known is someone at somepoint probably did it and theres no guarentees for anything. Thinking about the possible ramifications of things that are many steps down the road is just foolish theres no way to know,
and you have to pick something, do you want to be a pilot, do you want to be a commissioned officer, do you want to be enlisted, do you just want to serve in the USMC, theres any number of things you can do but you have to pick one. What do you want most, go for that and sometimes you can get a few of the others too, but you have to know what you want first.
How so? For starters, any commissioned officer outranks a warrant. In the Navy and USMC, most warrants get commissioned as limited duty officers, so they are restricted to a particular field and to (I believe) no higher than O5. I wouldn't call that "suicide" though.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
Normally, I would have been the guy that would get drunk then post smart-ass/borderline offensive comments to your questions. However, after some anger-management counseling, I've realized that it's not really worth my time to get worked up about it. So, I'll answer your questions based on my experience.
If you want to fly, going regular Army commission isn't the answer. WO's job is to fly, to be the tactical and technical experts in the aviation field. RLO's job is to know enough about flying, but to be a staff officer primarily. Yes, I know it's a bit of a generalization - but for someone with no experience in the matter, it's the easiest way to describe.
First, if you do join the military - eliminate the term "with all respect". Most of us who have been around the block realize what it means. "I think you're full of shit, and I know better than you..." Second, the title of Marine isn't all that important. A lot of what you hear/see about the Marine Corps when you're a civilian is HYPE. We're really good at propaganda. We do somethings really well, somethings not as well, and somethings horribly. But, we'll tell the world the things we do horribly is just because we're trend setters. Also, after a "few years" you won't necessarily get a lot of leadership experience under your belt. It's just the nature of the beast.
This is the most valid reason that you've mentioned for not going anywhere other than Navy/USMC. If the mission is what attracts you to the service - then say that. Everything else is just fluff. For what it's worth though, the USMC has some uber-crappy places to be stationed (e.g. - Jacksonville, NC). Case in point - when I was stationed in Jacksonville, NC - we would occasionally go to Fayetteville (home of Ft. Bragg and Pope AFB) on the weekends because it sucked less than Jacksonville.
Both seats in the Cobra are pilots.
People who join the Army weren't good enough for the Marines?!? Who have you been talking to - because your brainwashing is better than most. I often joke that ARMY stands for "Aren't Ready for the Marines Yet", but that is more inter-service rivalry than anything else. There are top-notch people in the Army, same as the Marines. Also if you think going Army WO is a "backwards step" without ever having served in the military, tell that to the former USMC Maj, MAWTS-1 Instructor, who became a CWO-2 in the 160th SOAR. Was it a backwards step for him? Was he not good enough for the Marines, and realized it after he was in a career track that had CO of a squadron written all over it?
Not all that juvenile. Most of us feel that way. Don't take the Army off the table - if they'll let you fly, you can shoot guns and fly there as well. There are more parallels between Army aviation and Marine aviation then you realize.
exNavyOffRec
Well-Known Member
USN LDO's can be O-6's, very few of them though, I believe in the nuke community there are only 3 billets.
LDO's can go as high as O6. Most LDO's in the Navy are commissioned from the CPO ranks, a few from Petty Officer First Class. You can go from Warrant to LDO and even revert back to LDO for retirement purposes. I do not believe you can go from LDO to Warrant. In the Navy although any Commissioned Officer outranks a Warrant on paper, trying telling that to your Gunner, MMCO, AMO etc as a first tour LT in your first sea tour.
exNavyOffRec
Well-Known Member
On my last ship we had the Electrical Officer go from LT to CWO4, he was a CPO, made warrant, then went LDO, then reverted to CWO4 and within 6 months made CWO5. I would see him almost daily as we would be in some of the same meetings, I had a few double takes as one day he was a LT, then the next meeting we had he was a CWO4.
This all had to do with retirement, and retirement pay or something.
Thank you all for your feedback. I did more research about the Army and the Warrant officer program and I've come to a conclusion.
First, I apologize for using the term "with respect." I didn't mean it in the way that phrogpilot73 implied. I was just using it to express that I knew where Hal Pilot was coming from, but that I wanted to clarify and add another reason why I was interested in the Marines.
Second, another reason I like the Marines opposed to the Army is the difference in culture. A few people have described the Marines to me as a very tight knit brotherhood or fraternity due to its smaller size compared to the other services. The Army was described to me as more of a society type deal. To be honest I do not know much about Navy culture, but I do think that the Air Force seems more like a business than a brotherhood (Like someone's signature said, a DMV with guns).
Lastly, I understand that much of the propaganda for the Marines is very attractive to civilians wanting to be badasses. Although that propaganda might have reinforced my liking, it wasn't what originally drew me to the Marines. I'm a big fan of tradition, something I know the USMC has plenty of. I'm one of those sickeningly straightforward optimistic people who truly believe in the values of Honor, Courage, and Commitment. Being a rifleman first is something that I want to do. Like Phrogpilot73 said, I am attracted to the mission.
I'm 21. I'll be 22 when I graduate from my University and head off to boot camp in June 2013. I have some years left before the cutoff year of 27 (but I think that's only for non-priors, I could be wrong). Hopefully in a few years, the OCC pipeline won't be in such a logjam that it is now, I will be more fit, and I will have proven myself so that I have people in my chain of command who could write me recommendation letters. Thank you for all of your responses and more feedback would still be appreciated.
I go to MEPS on August 27th, so nothing is final yet.
Last Question: Sort of ties into my original question, but do you think that enlisting in an aviation field such as Air Crew would carry any weight in an OCC board if I was trying to get an Air contract?
Again, thank you for your advice. It is much appreciated and valued.
~Ven
First, I apologize for using the term "with respect." I didn't mean it in the way that phrogpilot73 implied. I was just using it to express that I knew where Hal Pilot was coming from, but that I wanted to clarify and add another reason why I was interested in the Marines.
Second, another reason I like the Marines opposed to the Army is the difference in culture. A few people have described the Marines to me as a very tight knit brotherhood or fraternity due to its smaller size compared to the other services. The Army was described to me as more of a society type deal. To be honest I do not know much about Navy culture, but I do think that the Air Force seems more like a business than a brotherhood (Like someone's signature said, a DMV with guns).
Lastly, I understand that much of the propaganda for the Marines is very attractive to civilians wanting to be badasses. Although that propaganda might have reinforced my liking, it wasn't what originally drew me to the Marines. I'm a big fan of tradition, something I know the USMC has plenty of. I'm one of those sickeningly straightforward optimistic people who truly believe in the values of Honor, Courage, and Commitment. Being a rifleman first is something that I want to do. Like Phrogpilot73 said, I am attracted to the mission.
I'm 21. I'll be 22 when I graduate from my University and head off to boot camp in June 2013. I have some years left before the cutoff year of 27 (but I think that's only for non-priors, I could be wrong). Hopefully in a few years, the OCC pipeline won't be in such a logjam that it is now, I will be more fit, and I will have proven myself so that I have people in my chain of command who could write me recommendation letters. Thank you for all of your responses and more feedback would still be appreciated.
I go to MEPS on August 27th, so nothing is final yet.
Last Question: Sort of ties into my original question, but do you think that enlisting in an aviation field such as Air Crew would carry any weight in an OCC board if I was trying to get an Air contract?
Again, thank you for your advice. It is much appreciated and valued.
~Ven
Not really but it will give you some insight on how the wing works.