How not to conduct a command investigation

[insanebikerboy]

On that we agree. But, for all the reasons that have already been outlined here in this thread, I and most of my contemporaries, do not think that an officer who has declared an intent to separate is best suited be be a DH/CO/Etc. It is also doing a disservice to another similarly qualified, albeit marginally less so, officer who will be robbed of an opportunity. The end result is that neither qualified officer makes DH/command when one of them could have, were the EPs managed correctly.

You may not agree, and if you're in a position to be a RS, you can rank accordingly. I hope you discuss with your #2 why you're flushing their career down the toilet for, from where I sit, no good reason. You may find that your perspective changes if you have to make this call in the real world, vice an abstract discussion on AW.

I'm an asshole and would have no problem telling a guy he sucks, or wasn't quite good enough. I do it all the time already.

I hope that one day I can be a RS. I wouldn't rank someone because of another person's choice, because that means they didn't earn it but they are getting their ranking due to the decision of one of their peers, which is completely wrong in my opinion. They should be ranked purely and entirely on their performance and suitability. In this theoretical, what they do after they leave my fiefdom is between them and the Navy.

I could go on a larger rant about timing, etc, but I think the impending FITREP changes may resolve some of those issues.

 

[Brett327]

he sucks, or wasn't quite good enough.

You're completely missing the point. The guy in this scenario doesn't suck and isn't not good enough. He is, in every respect completely qualified. I think you and others have formed this idea in your heads that doing this is passing along trash to be DHs and COs. You may have experienced this in your own squadrons, but that is absolutely not what we're talking about.

I'm done going around in circles on this. If this isn't resonating with you, then I've done all I can.

 

[Hair Warrior]

What do you mean by this phrase? I’m not sure I understand what you’re asking.

I meant: An RS can write “recommended for command” on a FITREP to signal something to the board, privately tell the member “despite what the FITREP says you still have some growing to do,” and publicly tell the squadron nothing because it should not be broadcast.

 

[Brett327]

But what if that growth doesn't occur as hoped?

 

[Hair Warrior]

But what if that growth doesn't occur as hoped?

Correct me if this is an incorrect understanding: What I am hearing is that the phrase “recommended for command” is a FITREP-specific signal to the board to not end an officer’s career. It does not necessarily mean the officer should take command ASAP.

So if it’s widely understood to be just a FITREP-ism, just like other FITREP-isms, I am curious how using the phrase liberally (for many officers on the bubble) would impinge a RS’s integrity.

 

[Brett327]

Correct me if this is an incorrect understanding: What I am hearing is that the phrase “recommended for command” is a FITREP-specific signal to the board to not end an officer’s career. It does not necessarily mean the officer should take command ASAP.

So if it’s widely understood to be just a FITREP-ism, just like other FITREP-isms, I am curious how using the phrase liberally (for many officers on the bubble) would impinge a RS’s integrity.

You're overthinking this - a lot.

It is simply a recommendation from the RS to the board that will be considered with the totality of the officer's record. Its absence doesn't end a career, but it will likely result in non-selection for command. "Take command ASAP" is a meaningless phrase. If selected, the officer will take command per the usual slate process, PXO track, etc.

The integrity issue would be making a recommendation to the board to "select now for command" for someone who isn't qualified or otherwise ready. That could mean the board would pick this individual for command when the RS really didn't think the individual was qualified.

Make sense? Please tell me this makes sense to you now, because if I have to go over it one more time, I'm going to blow my fucking brains out.

 

[insanebikerboy]

You're completely missing the point. The guy in this scenario doesn't suck and isn't not good enough. He is, in every respect completely qualified. I think you and others have formed this idea in your heads that doing this is passing along trash to be DHs and COs. You may have experienced this in your own squadrons, but that is absolutely not what we're talking about.

I'm done going around in circles on this. If this isn't resonating with you, then I've done all I can.

I understand exactly what you're saying, and in reality the difference between a #1 and a #2 EP is often small, and often the #2 would most likely be an excellent CO. I am simply saying that the FITREP system should be the best of the best, regardless of future plans, and I would argue that your view is best of the rest.

We can agree to disagree. I 100% respect the desire of a RS to put forth a #1EP that he knows will stay around. but I don't think it's right.

 

[ea6bflyr]

I understand exactly what you're saying, and in reality the difference between a #1 and a #2 EP is often small, and often the #2 would most likely be an excellent CO. I am simply saying that the FITREP system should be the best of the best, regardless of future plans, and I would argue that your view is best of the rest.

We can agree to disagree. I 100% respect the desire of a RS to put forth a #1EP that he knows will stay around. but I don't think it's right.

The sad truth is that life changes for most aviators throughout their career. You may not want something during your JO tour, then life happens (Marriage, kids, house, losing a loved one, growing up, etc), and one changes their mind on what's important.

The system currently give an aviator one sea tour to get the #1 EP to maintain the golden path and there are no on-ramps to get back "on-track" once the paper is signed. The rest are dead wood left on the cutting room floor. Luck, timing, shitty CO, shitty readyroom, fired CO/change of RS, mishaps, and life priorities all compete with a good (or even great) aviator from getting his ticket punched. It's not a clean and simple system.

 

[Brett327]

You don't need a #1EP to remain due course.

 

[nittany03]

You don't need a #1EP to remain due course.

Tell that to the sea-shore EP players a few years back who are no longer on active duty. If you don’t need a #1EP to remain due course now, that’s indicative of a fluctuating standard for promotion, which is problematic for other reasons. One YG wears patches saying “3.0 for CO,” and another gets slaughtered at a statutory board.

 

[Pags]

I understand exactly what you're saying, and in reality the difference between a #1 and a #2 EP is often small, and often the #2 would most likely be an excellent CO. I am simply saying that the FITREP system should be the best of the best, regardless of future plans, and I would argue that your view is best of the rest.

We can agree to disagree. I 100% respect the desire of a RS to put forth a #1EP that he knows will stay around. but I don't think it's right.

It's not a report card or a resume bullet for those getting out (because who in the civilian world would care?). The intent is to communicate to the boards who should get a seat when the music stops. How would your recommendation help that process?

The other bit that amuses me in all these discussions is the assumption that the people that are getting out are better than those left. In my experience most JOs are within one standard deviation of each other wrt performance both in the air and on the ground. USN could probably just pick JOs at random and no one would ever notice.

 

[Brett327]

Tell that to the sea-shore EP players a few years back who are no longer on active duty. If you don’t need a #1EP to remain due course now, that’s indicative of a fluctuating standard for promotion, which is problematic for other reasons. One YG wears patches saying “3.0 for CO,” and another gets slaughtered at a statutory board.

You're judging the landscape based on two outlier cycles. Of course the standard fluctuates, as the composition of the force changes over time. Currently, retention is lower and SGs are compressing, therefore opportunity increases. It's always been like that.

 

[Pags]

You're judging the landscape based on two outlier cycles. Of course the standard fluctuates, as the composition of the force changes over time. Currently, retention is lower and SGs are compressing, therefore opportunity increases. It's always been like that.

Your argument ignores the fact that @nittany03 is a special millennial snowflake.

 

[Hair Warrior]

Make sense? Please tell me this makes sense to you now, because if I have to go over it one more time, I'm going to blow my fucking brains out.

Sir, you can’t die yet. You haven’t watched an episode of JAG or NCIS.

 

[Brett327]

Your argument ignores the fact that @nittany03 is a special millennial snowflake.

No, I accounted for that.