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How not to conduct a command investigation

nittany03

nittany03

Recovering NFO. Herder of Programmers.
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I wasn’t even bringing up my own record, but other people’s I worked with. But sure, go for the ad hominem, laugh it off, and assume it’s all about me.
 
Brett327

Brett327

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Pags said:
I don't see you showering him in praise nor empathizing with how bad he's had it. Perhaps you could recognize his efforts with a participation trophy?
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As I've often said, I had a squadron full of millennials, and I'd take them into combat any day... just not with @nittany03 . :)
 
Brett327

Brett327

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TimeBomb said:
Brett, is there any value in pulling officers who have dropped their papers into a separate ranking group, or is that already done?
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Just saw your post. Making a separate summary group isn't allowed per the instruction.
 
nittany03

nittany03

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Pags said:
Lighten up Francis. While it's at your expense it's meant to be a friendly jab.
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Alright, spooling down. Thought you were using the meme to take a shot. Peace . . .
 
insanebikerboy

insanebikerboy

Internet killed the television star
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Pags said:
It's not a report card or a resume bullet for those getting out (because who in the civilian world would care?). The intent is to communicate to the boards who should get a seat when the music stops. How would your recommendation help that process?

The other bit that amuses me in all these discussions is the assumption that the people that are getting out are better than those left. In my experience most JOs are within one standard deviation of each other wrt performance both in the air and on the ground. USN could probably just pick JOs at random and no one would ever notice.
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You missed my point. I’m not arguing that all of the guys getting out are by better than those staying in.

I simply take issue with the default reaction of a CO ranking someone lower because they may be getting out or taking a ‘less due course’ job.

Another anecdotal example from my career. My first squadron, a fellow JO, who was a rockstar, decided to go out on his own and find a foreign exchange tour for his first shore tour, and it was well known amongst the wardroom what he was doing.

The common opinion on this thread (and board) is that the dude didn’t deserve a #1 EP because he wasn’t going to the rag, weapons school, etc, and that a foreign exchange tour is career suicide these days. I’ve heard it in person from peers and former COs as well.

The CO still gave him a competitive #1 EP (to the shock of some of the DHs and some of wardroom). The end result is this JO screened for O-4 and DH, and with recent boards I can almost guarantee that if he had gotten a #2 or #3, he would be out of the Navy.

So, I again say, a CO should rank off of what he sees, not game FITREPs due to follow on career decisions by the individual.
 
P

Pags

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insanebikerboy said:
You missed my point. I’m not arguing that all of the guys getting out are by better than those staying in.

I simply take issue with the default reaction of a CO ranking someone lower because they may be getting out or taking a ‘less due course’ job.

Another anecdotal example from my career. My first squadron, a fellow JO, who was a rockstar, decided to go out on his own and find a foreign exchange tour for his first shore tour, and it was well known amongst the wardroom what he was doing.

The common opinion on this thread (and board) is that the dude didn’t deserve a #1 EP because he wasn’t going to the rag, weapons school, etc. I’ve heard it in person from peers and former COs as well.

The CO still gave him a competitive #1 EP (to the shock of some of the DHs and some of wardroom). The end result is this JO screened for O-4 and DH, and with recent boards I can almost guarantee that if he had gotten a #2 or #3, he would be out of the Navy.

So, I again say, a CO should rank off of what he sees, not game FITREPs due to follow on career decisions by the individual.
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Personally I get it. I was given bad paper because of my choice of shore tour that my CO didnt think was valuable. But I also understand why a CO would choose to balance limited EPs with what they may interpret to be less valuable follow on tours. I can't say as though it do it any different. Perhaps your old CO saw value in a PEP tour and therefore gave that guy an EP because of that. Maybe the story would have been different if he had gotten a different set of orders. Unless your old CO told you that your bud would have gotten the #1 no matter what you're guessing at his motives.
 
insanebikerboy

insanebikerboy

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Pags said:
Personally I get it. I was given bad paper because of my choice of shore tour that my CO didnt think was valuable. But I also understand why a CO would choose to balance limited EPs with what they may interpret to be less valuable follow on tours. I can't say as though it do it any different. Perhaps your old CO saw value in a PEP tour and therefore gave that guy an EP because of that. Maybe the story would have been different if he had gotten a different set of orders. Unless your old CO told you that your bud would have gotten the #1 no matter what you're guessing at his motives.
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I actually did ask my CO about it. I am very frank and to the point, no matter who it is.

His answer was because he earned the #1.
 
RedFive

RedFive

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Common theme here seems to be that providing a CO with only X number of EPs fucks a lot of shit up. Perhaps the Navy should allow for the CO to use their integrity and give EPs to those who earn it and have those hard discussions with those who didn't.

How did we select individuals for command in the old days? Vietnam, WW2, etc? How do other countries do it? Surely some talented young NPS student (likely an aviator who got an MP for choosing NPS over production) must have written a white paper on this by now...
 
U

UInavy

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RedFive said:
How did we select individuals for command in the old days? Vietnam, WW2, etc? How do other countries do it? Surely some talented young NPS student (likely an aviator who got an MP for choosing NPS over production) must have written a white paper on this by now...
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This isn't new. The desire (or lack thereof) to have hard conversations via FITREPS is at least 70+ years old.

Also, boards know this. They see through it.

You're going to want to look at these:

https://calhoun.nps.edu/bitstream/handle/10945/11624/analysisofnavyof00acos.pdf?sequence=1

Specifically, page 27:
NPS1945.PNG
https://calhoun.nps.edu/bitstream/10945/17992/1/usnavysfitnessre00laws.pdf
 
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